Does more advanced training include training in skills like "Drownproofing"

[boulderjohn]

Here was the question you were asked:

What's our scenario for needing it? Falling off the dive boat in our Speedos only?

Here was your answer:

I would say: any unexpected scenario where you would find such a skill to be helpful. It seems prudent to me to expect the unexpected.

You were asked to suggest a possible scenario in which the skill might be needed. Do you see that you did not answer the question at all? "Any unexpected scenario" could include a martian invasion or the arrival of the Spanish Inquisition, which is never expected. A key rule of all instructional theory is to avoid teaching something that is unnecessary, since doing so interferes with the student's ability to learn what is necessary. To do that, you have to deal with probabilities. You could argue, for example, that all advanced scuba classes should include instruction in French, since the diver may someday be in an emergency situation in which the only people around spoke French, but I would argue that the scenario is too unlikely to make a French requirement for scuba instruction necessary.

So I am quite curious about the answer, because even the one DevonDiver facetiously suggested does not work. Drownproofing is a skill that is valuable when you have to spend a very, very long time in the water without hope of rescue during that time. If you fell off the boat in nothing but a Speedo, you could casually swim back to the boat, where you would normally find someone laughing at you before helping you back on board. You will not have to spend hours floating next to the boat while everyone else wonders what the Hell you are doing.

So I will repeat the question. Under what reasonably possible circumstances would a diver expect to be on the surface alone for a very extended time without hope of rescue and without any source of buoyancy?

 

[nolatom]

Please tell the lifeguard before you train like this. Otherwise you'll make them jump and swim, and in a great hurry too, ending up with a pissed-off lifeguard. I like lifeguards to like me.



Is this stuff inadvisable in really cold water? You lose a lot of heat each time you put your head underwater. And treading water may keep your core warmer? Just askin'. If in a group they advise you to circle together and sort of scrunch up to conserve heat.


I too question how it's practically related to scuba. We have buoyancy, especially once you ditch your weights

 

[dmaziuk]

Is this stuff inadvisable in really cold water? You lose a lot of heat each time you put your head underwater. And treading water may keep your core warmer?

It's your choice: get too exhausted to stay afloat, or pass out from hypothermia. You drown either way, though I believe you're supposed to lose heat faster when threading water.

 

[eelnoraa]

It is not even a basic skill for divers, it is a basic skill for swimmers. I also truly believe that any one should be proficient in swimming before even get into OW class

 

[seeker242]

Here was the question you were asked:
Here was your answer:

You were asked to suggest a possible scenario in which the skill might be needed. Do you see that you did not answer the question at all?

No not really because it would be a useful skill to have I think in any situation where a person might drown on the surface. I didn't feel I would need to go provide hypothetical situations simply to ask if it's taught or not. Apparently, some people have been taught it and some haven't. The question is irrelevant to my inquiry if it's taught or not.

 

[Frosty]

Anything that is more advanced than "basic open water" training is what I was thinking. AKA the first certification that divers get.
I would say: any unexpected scenario where you would find such a skill to be helpful. It seems prudent to me to expect the unexpected.

Im sorry seeker I don't know what Open water course you attended but in mine I had to float for 10 minutes in my speedo's and had to swim for 200 yards in speedo's or 300 yards in a 3mm wetsuit.
The point there in my opinion is that if you can float for 10 minutes you CAN float almost indefinitely.
The other point has already been raised. Underwater drownproofing isn't going to help you and on the surface you aren't going to be without life saving gear strapped to you.

 

[boulderjohn]

No not really because it would be a useful skill to have I think in any situation where a person might drown on the surface. I didn't feel I would need to go provide hypothetical situations simply to ask if it's taught or not. Apparently, some people have been taught it and some haven't. The question is irrelevant to my inquiry if it's taught or not.

No, it is NOT a useful skill to have in any situation where a person might drown on the surface.

In a scenario in which a person might drown on the surface, the normal procedure is to swim toward a shore, boat or floatation device. Another solution would be to inflate one's own buoyancy device. it might be to tread water for a few minutes until help comes. The skill required to do all of those is already covered in basic OW instruction.

In those situations, the wrong thing to do would be to go into drownproofing mode. Think about it. If you did that in any of the situations just described, people would think you were out of your mind. In many cases, it would hinder your rescue--think of the line thrown for your assistance plopping unnoticed in the water next to you. The only time drownproofing is a useful skill is when you are lost in a very large body of water with no possibility of swimming to help, getting a floatation device, or receiving assistance in reasonably short order. The Navy quite rightly teaches this because it is reasonable to be in such a scenario with the sinking of a ship.

 

[Frosty]

No not really because it would be a useful skill to have I think in any situation where a person might drown on the surface. I didn't feel I would need to go provide hypothetical situations simply to ask if it's taught or not. Apparently, some people have been taught it and some haven't. The question is irrelevant to my inquiry if it's taught or not.

You are actually missing the point. without doing the whole "my dingalings bigger than your dingaling" thing you have been repeatedly asked the same question by several guys with hundreds -even thousands of hours diving.
THEY can't think of a specific scenario whilst involved in the sport of scuba diving where that specific skill would be applicable.
You are suggesting that the skill should be included in training. They are simply asking you the question WHY?
As in offer a specific scenario the skill would be useful.
I'll try to put this another way for you.
I think that learning to Knit should be a required skill set for scuba diving.
I can't offer any specific scenario where it would be usefull for scuba divers but I still feel it should be included in scuba training.
I know Im being ridiculous but do you see the point?
You will find that the guys you are talking with aren't closed minded to new ideas. But you need to qualify your ideas.

 

[rhuntley]

You are more likely to find those type of skills taught in a basic swimming class.

I guess a lot of folks that learn to dive haven't had a swim course, or the new swim classes have cut out the basics to save time.


Bob

I'm guessing because I haven't seen this taught as a swim instructor, you are correct about the latter.

 

[dmaziuk]

I'm guessing because I haven't this taught as a swim instructor, you are correct about the latter.

There seems to be a verb missing, but other than that: in my swim class I was first taught to "bob", then float spread-eagle face down, then float face up. Then they started teaching us to move and glide while afloat. I strongly suspect the only kind of swimming you can teach without that is thrashing and flailing that keeps you at the surface and moving forward somewhat.