Dolphin vs. Azimuth

[rayzjackson]

I've just certified on a Drager Dolphin and was about to purchase one, when someone suggested I look at the Azimuth as well.

Having already paid for the training on the Dolphin, switching to the Azimuth would carry quite a cost penalty, yet it does seem to have a few advantages.

Has anyone made a serious comparison of the two units or even better dived them both?

Thanks,
Ray

 

[madmole]

Azimuth is neater, newer, can be converted to ccr (you WILL want to eventually) and more comfortable to wear. But its takes more setting up and the breathing resistance is higher and it has had some problems with the hoses detaching from the mouthpiece

The dolphin is tried and tested and works, but is more basic

Both are shallow water units, you are a Darwin award contendee to dive either unit without adding a PPO2 meter, and both suffer from all the limitations of a normal active SCR unit

 

[wazza]

Why did not u think about CCR ,
in my point of view SCR dolphin
is a toy spending money to take the
course and to buy one what for ??
A CCR is better .
Don’t u agree with me madmole

 

[madmole]

The Inspiration lists are full of ex SCR users. Why limit your self to 4-8 times gas reuse and 40m depth and near OC deco times when for very little extra you can have 10-100 x gas conservation, 100m depth, buckets more dive time or less deco and a lot more safety

I agree wholeheartedly, ditch the scr they are a compromise

 

[rayzjackson]

I'm not very fit, so I don't think I would get any benefit from a setup that allowed me much longer dive times - I'd just end up getting over tired becuase I was tempted to use longer/deeper endurance of the machine.

Also at this stage I'm not really attracted to deco diving.

I was talking to an experienced Inspiration deep diver recently who reckoned that he came across a lot of people who bought Insprations for the wrong reasons - to use for recreational depths an non-deco diving, for which he reckoned it was over-kill.

It was suggested to me that the added complexity of monitoring the computers while diving meant that it took you a helluva lotta dives before operating it became so second nature that you could just get on with enjoying the diving.

The Dolphin just seems to make it all easier for me - I needed a 15l steel tank plus 16kg of weights with open circuit, I'm down to 12kg with the Dolphin, half of that in the integrated strap pockets, and the total weight when I'm walking around on the surface feels a lot less, and a lot more stable. I also breathe heavy so I was emptying a 15l tank well before hitting NDLs, and even before getting tired.

It seems to me that if an SCR meets my needs, going CCR is just extra cost and complexity that I don't get much benefit from.

Ray

 

[madmole]

I wear 4Kg with my Inspiration, and thats in a UK drysuit with double layers underneath. The Inspiration is within 1kg of weight of the Dolphin (Smaller cylinders), ie slightly lighter.

I'd check your kit configuration as I suspect you are heavily overwighted and hence your excessive air consumption (I am medically obese so I know the consumption problem well) and I'm sorry to suprise you but ALL dives are deco dives, regardles of you doing stops or not

Americans buy SUV's even though they are overkill, but they are more convenient and much more fun than an escort

IMHO the Inspiration is easier and quicker to set up than the Azimuth. The draeger suffers from blocked jets which are very dangerouse if you dont have a PO2 monitor. Both drop PPo2 rapidly on the surface with excercise

As for the handset monitoring, it was a new for the first 5 dives and then I didn't notice it again. On the Dolphin you NEED to monitor the PPO2 as well (you are going to fit a PPO2 guage arn't you?). On OC you monitor your contents and dive computer dont you. This comment was obviously made by someone who's not done CCR training. By the time you complete your training this isn't an issue

Inspiration is fine for rec diving. You can go several days without filling the cylinders and only changing the scrubber every 3 hours (the same as the SCR's), and you get the benefit of no bubbles. I'm quite happy poodling at 12m in mine, its far more streamline than OC and nice warn gas as well

I dive with Dolphin folks regularly (Chris Owen, one of my club is the webmaster for the unnoficial Dolphin user group) and they all end up plugging so many jets and different cylinders on the unit to get bailout and better gas mixes that they would have all been better of buying a CCR in the first place.

oh and my second hand Yellow box cost less than their new Dolphins or Azimuths, even after training

 

[rayzjackson]

I think I was a bit overweighted with the open circuit gear and 16kg, but I'm pretty close to correct on the Dolphin - I have to use some arm strokes to get me under the surface with the jacket fully deflated. I check in at about 320 lbs so I'm very bouyant.

Having said that, I'm planning to try and drop another 2kg, and maybe use a mouth-in-nose-out technique to partially empty the counter-lung to achieve initial descent. I am finding that I don't have enough capacity in the Dolphin BC below about 27m - I have it full but I need to kick to maintain depth or I'll carry on descending.

If I go ahead with the dolphin, I think I may have to fit a bigger BC which some people seem to have already done.

Because of my size and increased DCS risk, I'd already switched to diving Nitrox but staying well clear of the extended NDL's to increase my safety margins. So I am not planning to get into diving depths that have significant deco requirements.

Ray

 

[madmole]

Whooaaa hold on, get some diving lessons then and master basic skills before trying a rebreather

1) If you struggle to get down with full tanks, you'll be coming up like a rocket at the end of your dive when said tanks are empty. Very dangerous

2) If a BC can support you at 10m it can support you at 100m, there is no change in bouyancy/volume with depth!!! basic physics. A 16kg lift wing, provides 16kg of lift regardless of depth

3) Fat is roughly the same density as water, how big you are makes little differnce to your bouyancy. Unless you have a huge neoprene drysuit that doesn't fit. Trust me I know this very well!!!

It seems to me you have some fundamental buoyancy problems. i would sort these first before using a rebreater

 

[wazza]

Guys wait let me tell u what I know :
1) mouth-in-nose-out technique to partially empty the counter-lung while descending this is very wrong, u have to do that before jumping in the water when u want to start your ascent from the bottom. But not while u r going down the first 5 to 10 meter. The first 10 meters u have to go down 5 meters per minutes cos u have to fill the lungs with air, u have more pressure while going down from the water, and the lung will be empty anyway if u went fast from one breath and u will start using the air from your tank and this what u don’t.
2) if he is using a ALU tank its will be a problem for him in the end of the dive, cos ALU tank will be more positive in the end of the dive, but if he is using a steel tank I wont it will be better for him cos it will make him a bit negative in the end of the dive.
3) And I agree with u Mr. Madmole about the BCD 16k lift, but i am having a problem with this one hope u can advice me. One of my BCDs is a 16kg lift and I cant go deeper that 40m with it cos if I went to 65 for example I feel my self very heavy and the BCD wont make me even neutral I have to fully inflated and even kick with my legs to reach the 40 , I thought first the problem is form me but my friends have the same BCD and they are having the same problem, do u know why ????

 

[madmole]

Doesn't mater if its Alu or steel, if you breathe 5kg of gas from it, its 5kg lighter!!!

As for the loss of bouyancy at depth, if your wing is full , its not the wing, what other sources of compressable bouyancy are you using.

Also check the overpressure valve, maybe its effected by the pressure in some way and not allowing full inflation at depth

Bet you wear neoprene suits (thats why membranes are much better for deep diving)

Personally my wing is for emergencies and the surface, I use my drysuit for buoyancy, which means less things to worry about, its got an auto dump and I stay warmer. If you HAVE to use wing and drysuit you are definately overweighted