DSS wing - not a donut - discuss

[Green_Manelishi]

Joe,

Blaldderless is generally less expensive, However, as Tobin pointed out, costs can rise when you begin to add gussets because it is more difficult and labor intensive. In my opinion, they are more streamlined. Less weight is another benefit, but I would not make my decsion on a pound or two.

web: http://oxycheq.

Two questions, pardon my ignorance:

1) in the real world how much drag is there associated with bladderless vs bladder?
The bladder is, after all, inside the shell and I can't imagine a zipper (or velcro) being of tremendous drag.

2) What material is being used for a bladder that would add 1, much less, 2 pounds of weight to a wing.

 

[Patrick]

A plate design? Interesting. It was my (very novice) understanding that most of the STA-less single tank solutions involved something like an STA built into the wing to prevent the wobble (like a H Pioneer). /QUOTE]

There are a number of different methods to stablize the tank. Some use STAs, some use rods (like Halcyon), some use softer materials, most BCs use plastic tank keepers (for lack of a btter workd), all with the desire to control movement.

So, would this plate be a strictly singles plate?

Yes. But, that won't happen until the new wings and the ProPac is introduced. Would ne nice to have it when I launch the Mach V.

Sorry if I misunderstood, and thanks for the reply. /QUOTE]

No need and quite welcome.

Safe diving,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
3812 Crossroads Parkway
Fort Pierce FL 34945
Ph: 772.466.4612
Fax: 772.293.9657
web: http://oxycheq.com

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Hi Gregg,

If you have a tank with proper slots, you can strap it without a STA.

I think Patrick meant to say... a plate with the proper slots...
I've been looking for those tanks with the built in slots... but all the ones I found, leak!

Pesonally, I prefer a STA because it becomes one complete unit.

Right on!

 

[Patrick]

Two questions, pardon my ignorance:

1) in the real world how much drag is there associated with bladderless vs bladder?
The bladder is, after all, inside the shell and I can't imagine a zipper (or velcro) being of tremendous drag.

I think it is minimal when compared to things like a dangling light, poor trim in the water, a big stomach, a spear gun or someone that does not keep their hands on the side when kicking. Personally, I think poor trim is the biggest reason for high drag.

For single tanks, I dive the Sig Series 30#. Swimming long distances in a cave or a long swim off the beach are completely different than antypical vertical dive. Swimming underwater is a lot easier than swimming on the surface (especially when experiencing strong currents). You move futher per kick and you can grab and pull.

Previosuly I posted where the Razor 50 gained one kick out of six over my Standard 50 in a normally matched swim of two divers wearing the same configuration. However, that was a situation where the entire dive was a swim. That is not common for a single tank diver and it may not be important for them or as important as other wing features.

This gets back to all those questions I asked when someone asked me about what wing they sould consider.

2) What material is being used for a bladder that would add 1, much less, 2 pounds of weight to a wing.

The thickness of the urethane bladder. I should mention not everyone uses urethane.

Slightly off the subject, I did get in the new bladder material I was expecting. For those of you that have a Signature Series wing, this looks like it is even going to be tougher. Will be sending it out for testing and at some point will consider making it as standard on the Sig Series wings. Nobody has anything like this now. The materail is crazy.

Safe diving,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
3812 Crossroads Parkway
Fort Pierce FL 34945
Ph: 772.466.4612
Fax: 772.293.9657
web: http://oxycheq.com

 

[Patrick]

I think Patrick meant to say... a plate with the proper slots...
I've been looking for those tanks with the built in slots... but all the ones I found, leak!

Stephen,

Of course, you are correct. Too funny. Don't worry, I am sure I'll have more brain farts before this thread is done.

Safe diving,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
3812 Crossroads Parkway
Fort Pierce FL 34945
Ph: 772.466.4612
Fax: 772.293.9657
web: http://oxycheq.

 

[Splitlip]

Hi Splitlip,
Sorry, I wasn't as clear as I meant to be.
I realize that the gas will rise to the top of the bladder/wing and that I would most often surface swim on my back but I wondered if Physically/hydrodynamically, it would be easier to adjust my attitude to vertical or "flip forward" for snorkeling without as much effort/water resistance against the bottom of a doughnut vs an open/"empty" area just under the surface on a standard horseshore wing? Would either design make the physical act of leaning back or leaning forward at the surface any easier for a tired diver in choppy surface conditions?

Hope I'm making this clearer... I'm just getting back into diving after a 20 yr. absence and having been used to the old backplate systems of the past, I want to go to bp system. I hate jacket b.c.d.s.

Thanks for your response! Jim

Hi Jim.
Welcome back to the pond! I was gone myself for about 15 years.
I have not used a donut yet myself, but I have been using back inflates since I got back into it. Infact, I never used a jacket style BC.
You really should never have to completely inflate a back bc, especially at the surface.
I think any back inflate will have a tendency to face plant you if over inflate it, epecially if you are not trimmed correctly. Only time I experienced that I had an empty Al 80 and no trim weights behind me. I exhausted some gas and had to kind of kick up to recline. I dive steel now, so the trim weights have not really been an issue anymore. Real easy to sit back on the surface like you are in a chair.
The better question might be is one easier than the other to recline at the surface. That I cannot answer, but a lot these folks on the baord probably could.

 

[cool_hardware52]

The better question might be is one easier than the other to recline at the surface. That I cannot answer, but a lot these folks on the board probably could.

Properly set up either a horseshoe or a donut provides about the same performance at the surface for a vertical diver.

If the diver is not overweighted, and using a crotch strap, all that is needed to keep your chin out of the water is a few small puffs in the wing. This fills only the top arc of the wing. All the required gas is essentially behind your head or shoulders, none is in the bottom of the wing, regardless of whether the wing is a horseshoe or donut.


Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

2) What material is being used for a bladder that would add 1, much less, 2 pounds of weight to a wing.

Double bladder (sewn outer shell with inner urethane bladder) wings are heavier that single layer wings simply because there is two layers, and some means of accessing the iner bladder (zipper, velcro etc.)

Tobin

 

[Patrick]

One really should never have to completely inflate a back bc, especially at the surface.

At the surface, roll over on your back, inflate the wing all the way and kick. Like riding on a float.

Best regards,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
3812 Crossroads Parkway
Fort Pierce FL 34945
Ph: 772.466.4612
Fax: 772.293.9657
web: http://oxycheq.com

 

[StSomewhere]

I also have a Soft STA, that attaches to the wing. It acts as a channel to stop any wobble and also reduces the load on plastic buckles. That said, we also have stainless buckles and many of the competitors do as well.

You should consider posting a good picture of your Soft STA on your website.