Easy Penetration Dives

[Lost Yooper]

Common sense might tell one person that breathing underwater and relying on equipment to keep you alive is not sane. For another, swimming under a 20' arch, or going in and out of a ships cargo holds under good conditions is an acceptable risk.

In the end, you have to evaluate the conditions; recognize your skill and comfort level, and accept the risk. Training is fine IF it's good training, but NO amount of training is a substitute for common sense. In the end, it comes down to what you know. People who place a great deal of emphasis on a piece of plastic kinda scare me.



Mike

 

[Tekdiver]

Mr. Tom Vyles,

I was introduced to someone named "Tom", and his girlfriend by MF several months ago at a dive club meeting. Not that that makes me "know" you but I thought we were aquainted. If this was not you, I am mistaken and apologizse. Please accept my scincerest appologies.

Kind regards,

Marc Thompson
SCUBADILLO DIVE CLUB
Vice President 98-02
(972)743-0945

 

[Iguana Don]

I think we can say penetration and overhead environment are one and the same, also to include deep dives where there is an imaginary overhead.

ANY PLACE YOU CANNOT MAKE A DIRECT ASSENT TO THE SURFACE.

A bus would be considered and overhead environment and so would the Lear Jet.

Inside any of these you will find silt and if for some reason a diver stirred it up and panicked then you will have a bad situation.

Maybe this will answer some of the questions.

I would like to commend each and everyone of you that have participated in this thread. All comments have been expressed with the utmost professionalism and courtesy in regards to the subject matter.

Thanks

ID
Proud Member of the ScubaSource Team

 

[uwgal]

I am new to this board and have been watching it for the past couple of days and I have this to say.....

The other morning, I saw Tekdiver's post and see where you have edited out some of the stuff he wrote about you because it was not very complementary to you as a diver. If you are going to dispense advice and be the moderator of this board, you need to be able to take advice as well. I see you are a fairly new diver, being cerified back in 12/2000.

You are just begining...and I am glad you are doing more training. However, don't do it for you ego. I have seen too many people become Divemasters and Instructors for the wrong reason.....EGO.... I hope you do not go this route. Also, I hope you take your time and not rush through your training on to Instructor....please please take your time and work many many classes as a DM before moving on.

I have been diving for 20 years. Also, I am an Instructor. And for the last couple of years, I have become a student of technical diving, (Nitrox, Advanced Nitrox, Deco, and Cave) to further my knowledge and skills. In the beginning of my diving career, I did alot of fun diving in fresh and saltwater before going on and becoming a Divemaster/Assistant Instructor/Master Diver. I spent 15 years as a DM/AI helping with classes year round. After all those years of helping, I had more experienced than most Instructors. It was time for me to become an Instructor. I did not do it for ego. There were too many new Instructors out there that had very little diving experience. I knew of some that had gone from Open Water diver to Instructor in a year. In my opinion, that is not enough time to become an Instructor much less a good diver. And after 20 years of diving, I am still a student of diving. And I also do alot of fun diving, fresh or salt, great visibility to low visibility. I hate to hear people say “I only dive blue water” because if you dive in less that prestine conditions, you are such a better diver and when you go to blue water, you appreciate it that much more.

Texas Mike, listen to those that have more experience than you. Learn from them, be humble, do not let your ego get in the way of keeping an open mind to things, and always be a student, whether you are teaching or taking a class. There is always something new to learn as a student or teaching a student, even if you have been diving for 20 years.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

My wife nor I have ever been to a Scuabdillo meeting. It wasn't me.

Apology accepted.

Tom

 

[TexasMike]

Originally posted by uwgal
I am new to this board and have been watching it for the past couple of days and I have this to say.....

[[[...snip...]]]

There's a little more to this than you know and it's not germane to this topic, so it won't be brought forth. But your information is accepted.

 

[uwgal]

Don't underestimate what I know about you Texas Mike.....

 

[TexasMike]

Can we agree to drop the issue about me and return to the original topic of conversation please? As I have said, I have accepted your information.

If you or anyone else desire to persue any issues about me, I ask (personally and "offically") that it be taken offline. Otherwise I consider the matter to be understood, considered, listened to, accepted, and over.

 

[The Chairman]

While the debate has been civil in some regards, I find it disheartening that there does seem to be personal attacks, and even accusations being made. There were some "points" directed at TM earlier... which were OK points in and of themselves mind you. But I read what TM had said, and really felt the poster had assumed a LOT. It's not even apparent just WHAT the poster had assumed, but TM's post about the liability of sinking the tube was more than appropriate. I don't even think he condoned it or rejected it... he was being quite candid that it was happening.

You know, I can fully understand TM taking out private information that was posted about him on this board. If he were NOT a moderator, I would hope that he would have asked me to remove it, as I would have done... as I would do for any and all of you. There is no need to try and humiliate people by trying to show everyone just where YOU think their training is (pardon the obvious pun) shallow. There is no earthly reason for me to post personal data about ANY OF YOU, no matter how well I THINK I might know you. It's rude and not professional. What on earth are you thinking??? If you have a point to make, then make it. Try and keep the personal attacks to a minimum and you will see the quality of information exchanged rise.

So please, lest I get flamed (and I will, I can just feel it), If you feel that someone is being a jerk... the BEST way to let them know that is by PMing them (that means keeping it private). Notice, how I did not mention ANY names here (yeah, yeah, you can go back and figure out who it was, I can't help that)... I am leaving the guilty anonymous. I do this for three reasons... 1) I ALWAYS keep personal "crap" personal! If I feel you are way out of line, I PM you. 2) Unfortunately, someone already went and made this personal thing public (they violated rule #1) soooooo..... 3) I need to make it clear to EVERYONE what is acceptable and not acceptable when it comes to posting personal information. If it's not your personal information, then it's not for you to post. AND, if someone posts personal information about you, PLEASE CONTACT ME OR ANY MODERATOR so we can get that off of the net for you. Privacy is important.

No, that doesn't mean you can't disagree with anyone outright... Be civil, be clear, be specific, but don't post personal information. Hey, there are several people that I come head to head with on a regular basis... but we stop things when they become personal. Every now and then we even agree! Your message, right or wrong, should stand on it's own merits and does not need to be supported by belittling others. As my daughter used to say... "Don't be a poo-poo head!"

 

[Texas Tek-diver]

Alot has been said since my last visit to Scuba Board...

Originally posted by Texas Tek-diver
I know I'm opening up a can of worms

I knew this topic was just a whee bit on the sensitive side, but geezzz guys. I've been fumbling around for days now attempting to put the right words together and I've been reluctant to respond to any of this.

So, here is the bottom line to the question of liability...it starts with you. The diver who made the conscience decision to go where you're not suppose to...(but in real life) your lawyer or your wife's lawyer will see it differently by blaming the Scuba Park for not posting any signs to warn against any inherent dangers...even though you have been taught better that. I'm sure the lawyers will come up with a long list prospective candidates to go after before it's all over, but the Scuba Park would probably be the first casualty of the blame game.

The root of the problem, is not accepting an answer, because it's not what people want to hear.

I didn't intend for this thing to implode like it did. So let's all take a deep breath and remember, that we all share a common interest in diving and diver safety. We are all here to help one another and to share with each other our experiences as divers. If we disagree with one another, then let's agree to disagree and give it a rest...I'll return to my little corner now.

"and that's all I have to say about that!" FORREST GUMP