Eel Attack in Cozumel (The Feeding of Lionfish)

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I was on this same reef, Villa Blanca, the next day, and think I encountered the same eel. I was 6 feet above the "eel territory, and the divemaster motioned for me to "move." I turned around to see 6 foot eel, chasing my divebuddy. Fortunately, no one was injured this time. No one was feeding this eel. Perhaps it is mating season and the eels are protecting theri territory, as no one was feeding this one. Our divemaster debriefed us saying he has not seen aggressive eels like this before. I hope Joyce had a tetnus shot. All divers should be current with this immunization.
Best, The Mermaid
 
Whew. Reading this thread has left me exhausted.
What I have learned:
Joyceschur got bitten by an eel and doesn't like criticism.
Some posters just won't let things rest...bet they pick scabs too.
There are a few posters with the "voice of reason", glad to hear their level headed responses.
We never know how we will react until it happens to us.
Over half the lionfish in the caribbean are toxic. We don't eat em here, take your chances if you want to.
Scubaboard has never failed to entertain me.
 
Hi guys, first post here, so I'm gonna try and not be too presumptuous.

I'm a new diver, but I'm not new to "Extreme" sports, which have more than their fair share of accidents. I've been rock climbing, riding sport bikes, and 4-wheeling/dirtbiking, boating/wakeboarding, gun building and all manner of shooting sports, and all sorts of other expensive and 'dangerous' sports, for many years.

I've been participating in forums dedicated to those sports for as long as forums have been around.

A few things that I've gathered in my time reading accident debriefings in these sports:

First, nobody likes criticism. It takes a big person to admit that they found themselves in a compromising situation. And often even when those people admit it, they tend to seek to minimize their own culpability. For this reason, the "Whole" story is almost never all there.

Secondly, everybody fancies themselves an expert. The internet has no shortage of armchair quarterbacks/armchair commandos. The people who are most likely to talk about how THEY would have responded in a situation, are the ones who are most likely also ones who have yet to find themselves there. And there's often a great deal of poetic justice to be observed when those people actually DO find themselves there (often reacting exactly the same way that they have criticized others for reacting, in the past).

Thirdly, people quickly lose interest in sharing their learning experiences if they observe that sharing will be met with harsh criticism by those who fancy themselves so elite as to never make a mistake.

It's always easy to examine an event after the fact, without the confusion and judgment-clouding factors of pain, disorientation, adrenaline, and just downright physical shock. There is a list of "ideals" a mile long as to what SHOULD have happened, in any incident. And number one on that list is that the incident never happened in the first place. Ideally, the eel wouldn't have bitten her. Ideally, the Dive Master would have been paying attention to his group and not jacking around with lion fish, and feeding wild animals. Ideally, after the bite occurred, the victim would have been able to remain calm, and unaffected by the pain, shock, fear, and adrenaline. Ideally, she would have been able to examine the wound, and determine that it wasn't supremely dangerous, and end her dive in a more controlled manner...

There's always something to be learned from these situations, and there's no harm in pointing out what might have been done differently, or what one should do differently in the future to avoid such situations. But demeaning and hounding the poster for their mistakes is only counter productive, and serves no real purpose other than to stoke the egos of those who are assessing the situation from the comfort of their beds.

There's no reason to get nasty.

I've been on both sides of incident debriefings. I've done stupid things that all my training told me better than to do, but in the heat of the moment my instincts got the better of me. It's embarrassing enough that it happened, and even more embarrassing to admit on a public forum. And it can be downright dehumanizing when the A-holes come out of the woodwork to tell you that you're an idiot.

Reviewing incidents after the fact (both mine, and others) has been useful in further conditioning my mind to not have the same reaction; and constructive criticism has always been something I tried to be open to. But lambasting people and haranguing them for admitting when they've messed up doesn't help anybody. Take what you can learn from other people's mistakes, and try not to repeat them. Take what you can learn from your own mistakes, and try not to repeat them.

And try to give your advice and criticisms to people in the same way that you would give them if you were talking to them face-to-face, say, for example, somebody you just met on a dive boat, or at the local climbing spot, or wherever, who shares a story of a mistake they've made. It's easy to blast people and forget that they're real people, when you're not making eye contact, or, perhaps sitting within fist swinging distance. :wink:

To the OP, I'm glad you weren't seriously injured. I hope your bite wound, and the wounds to your pride heal quickly. I've always been kinda proud of my scars; and while I can say with certainty that I DO NOT want to be bitten by an eel, I'm a little jealous that I don't get the badge of honor (scar) and the epic story that you now have of having been bitten by an eel, but while still maintaining a full inventory of appendages. :eyebrow:
 
1) Is it professional, responsible conduct for hired DMs to divert their attention from customers in order to hunt lionfish during the course of a guided dive?

When I dive somewhere that has non-native, invasive lionfish, I wish the guides would kill every lionfish they can, and I'm not a spearhunter or hunter of any kind. Lionfish have no natural predators in the Caribbean and they threaten the entire ecosystem.

Feeding them to would-be predators is a whole other matter, however. Those predators wouldn't recognize a lionfish that's not filleted. Hence, the next step of feeding the whole lionfish to the predator, all the while associating people with food. It also alters the natural behaviour of the predator and all those critters seeking and waiting for handouts and becoming overly familiar with divers.

I think this situation is similar to the invasive Crown of Thorns problem in French Polynesia. The crown of thorns eats it's weight in coral each day and is destroying the reef. When I was diving in Moorea (near Bora Bora and Tahiti) a few years ago, I had a dive boat to myself with 2 instructors. One was my buddy and the other went off nearby to hunt and capture the crown of thorns. I wanted to help capture them but I was not allowed. They told me that if I saw a little patch of white coral, to point it out and they would look underneath and get the crown of thorns. Sure enough, the rare little white patches we saw had a crown of thorns underneath. They got each one, put them in a cage and onto the boat. They were allowed to either inject them with bleach or release them in deep water where they would die from the pressure, and they did the latter.

I could have and was expected to do only sightseeing on this beautiful, nearly pristine reef, but I was very happy to explore and see tonnes of life as well as help them try to eradicate this menace that had already destroyed Raratonga and others. I also saw it as a good cause and wanted to help.

I would have no issue with a Dive Guide killing lionfish. As others have mentioned, I only expect a guide to give a decent dive briefing and use his or her knowledge of the reef to find the critters. Many guides hardly even look back to see if everyone is staying together, let alone know if anyone is having an issue. Certified divers need to be self-reliant and part of a good buddy team in order to quell this dependence on dive professionals - for their own safety.
 
I'm really much more interested in your opinions about hired guides who are now spending a considerable amount of time lionfish hunting to the point of unprofessional inattentiveness.

It may seem to be good entertainment for some people, but it's a big distraction for the DM to hunt AND keep an eye on everyone at the same time. It's not what he/she is getting paid to do. Unless the dive was billed as a hunt or everyone in the group is cool with it, stick to diving.

And do you think it's a good idea to de-spine/fillet lionfish and create artificial feeding conditions for eels.

Please don't feed the bears. Same goes here.

Do you think it's remotely possible that these eels are being conditioned to view divers as feeders, which might lead to increased eel attacks on divers?

You are correct. My fish agree, too. Every time I walk up to the tank, up they come for food. Boat after boat, day after day, lionfish after lionfish they learn the association: Diver = Food.
 
Joyce, Did you inquire about the DM's role or responsibilities with the owner or manager of the dive shop?
 
Wow, where did all the new members come from. This is cool...! :eyebrow:
I was on this same reef, Villa Blanca, the next day, and think I encountered the same eel. I was 6 feet above the "eel territory, and the divemaster motioned for me to "move." I turned around to see 6 foot eel, chasing my divebuddy. Fortunately, no one was injured this time. No one was feeding this eel. Perhaps it is mating season and the eels are protecting theri territory, as no one was feeding this one. Our divemaster debriefed us saying he has not seen aggressive eels like this before. I hope Joyce had a tetnus shot. All divers should be current with this immunization.
Best, The Mermaid
Ok so you were a lurker, now posting. Still cool. :thumb: Yeah, tetanus is one you want to keep current for US or international travel. The vaccine covers diphtheria and pertussis (Tdap) now.

It sounds like maybe the Moray had been conditioned to other DMs feeding previously? It's not in the park so tourists are also allowed to hunt and feed there and I know one here who does, but how did you know it was the Villablanca wall or what day? I don't see that mentioned anywhere here, under any spelling? You must have direct knowledge here.
Over half the lionfish in the caribbean are toxic. We don't eat em here, take your chances if you want to.
Hiya Brat. Half? Where did you hear that, please?
Hi guys, first post here, so I'm gonna try and not be too presumptuous.

I'm a new diver, but I'm not new to "Extreme" sports, which have more than their fair share of accidents. I've been rock climbing, riding sport bikes, and 4-wheeling/dirtbiking, boating/wakeboarding, gun building and all manner of shooting sports, and all sorts of other expensive and 'dangerous' sports, for many years.

I've been participating in forums dedicated to those sports for as long as forums have been around.

A few things that I've gathered in my time reading accident debriefings in these sports:

First, nobody likes criticism. It takes a big person to admit that they found themselves in a compromising situation. And often even when those people admit it, they tend to seek to minimize their own culpability. For this reason, the "Whole" story is almost never all there.

Secondly, everybody fancies themselves an expert. The internet has no shortage of armchair quarterbacks/armchair commandos. The people who are most likely to talk about how THEY would have responded in a situation, are the ones who are most likely also ones who have yet to find themselves there. And there's often a great deal of poetic justice to be observed when those people actually DO find themselves there (often reacting exactly the same way that they have criticized others for reacting, in the past).

Thirdly, people quickly lose interest in sharing their learning experiences if they observe that sharing will be met with harsh criticism by those who fancy themselves so elite as to never make a mistake.

It's always easy to examine an event after the fact, without the confusion and judgment-clouding factors of pain, disorientation, adrenaline, and just downright physical shock. There is a list of "ideals" a mile long as to what SHOULD have happened, in any incident. And number one on that list is that the incident never happened in the first place. Ideally, the eel wouldn't have bitten her. Ideally, the Dive Master would have been paying attention to his group and not jacking around with lion fish, and feeding wild animals. Ideally, after the bite occurred, the victim would have been able to remain calm, and unaffected by the pain, shock, fear, and adrenaline. Ideally, she would have been able to examine the wound, and determine that it wasn't supremely dangerous, and end her dive in a more controlled manner...

There's always something to be learned from these situations, and there's no harm in pointing out what might have been done differently, or what one should do differently in the future to avoid such situations. But demeaning and hounding the poster for their mistakes is only counter productive, and serves no real purpose other than to stoke the egos of those who are assessing the situation from the comfort of their beds.

There's no reason to get nasty.

I've been on both sides of incident debriefings. I've done stupid things that all my training told me better than to do, but in the heat of the moment my instincts got the better of me. It's embarrassing enough that it happened, and even more embarrassing to admit on a public forum. And it can be downright dehumanizing when the A-holes come out of the woodwork to tell you that you're an idiot.

Reviewing incidents after the fact (both mine, and others) has been useful in further conditioning my mind to not have the same reaction; and constructive criticism has always been something I tried to be open to. But lambasting people and haranguing them for admitting when they've messed up doesn't help anybody. Take what you can learn from other people's mistakes, and try not to repeat them. Take what you can learn from your own mistakes, and try not to repeat them.

And try to give your advice and criticisms to people in the same way that you would give them if you were talking to them face-to-face, say, for example, somebody you just met on a dive boat, or at the local climbing spot, or wherever, who shares a story of a mistake they've made. It's easy to blast people and forget that they're real people, when you're not making eye contact, or, perhaps sitting within fist swinging distance. :wink:

To the OP, I'm glad you weren't seriously injured. I hope your bite wound, and the wounds to your pride heal quickly. I've always been kinda proud of my scars; and while I can say with certainty that I DO NOT want to be bitten by an eel, I'm a little jealous that I don't get the badge of honor (scar) and the epic story that you now have of having been bitten by an eel, but while still maintaining a full inventory of appendages. :eyebrow:
Howdy and welcome to SB. Yeah, I have posted some of my own incidents on Near Misses and have learned the hard way to present my case carefully in post #1. The sooner I admit my possible screw-ups and move to to learning from them the better.
You are correct. My fish agree, too. Every time I walk up to the tank, up they come for food. Boat after boat, day after day, lionfish after lionfish they learn the association: Diver = Food.
I once had a large aquarium snail I taught to beg. Tap glass with ring, come back in a few minutes, and he had raced into position in the same corner. :D

I really thot this thread was dying on post #52 when I gave posting help.
Panda.gif
 
I think some people were a little less delicate than usual on this thread. However, I myself was my usual pain in the ass.

If the OP had simply conceded that she might have over reacted (a little) during the dive, is now better informed about eels and in the future will make emergency ascents only when necessary; things would have gone smoother in this thread. What I initially viewed as tenacity now appears to be......... well i don't need to stir the pot any further.

I think the issue of feeding predators and also what to do with lionfish are actually much more interesting topics. I'm not a big fan of divers feeding sharks or eels.. it endangers both divers and the recipients of the hand out.

If I am diving and a big green moray comes flying off the reef at me, there is a pretty good chance the eel will be killed with my speargun. An overly aggressive shark will meet the same fate.
 
Wow, you just don't know when to stop do you?

If you don't knwo the difference between arterial, venous or capillary bleeding, you need to retake your first responder course. Yuo didn't adequately absorb the knowledge given.

Umm...let's see... When I am under the water...
Arterial blood looks green.
Venous blood looks green.
Capillary blood looks.....green.

The green cloud makes it sorta hard to see if it is spurting or if it is just sorta' oozing or seeping. I think I'm gonna be sick... :vomit::yuck:

I'm sorry, but I would have trouble telling the difference at 40 feet under water, especially if it were MY blood. Guess I need to take my medical school course over again.
 
Yeah, tetanus is one you want to keep current for US or international travel.
Yes, I think the recommendation is a booster every ten years.

The vaccine covers diphtheria and pertussis (Tdap) now.
I think that while the Tdap is relatively new, a combination diptheria-pertussis-tetanus shot (DPT) has been around for decades. The difference is the new vaccine uses acellular pertussis vaccine.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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