Evaluating LDSs for AOW

[stargazer61]

I think that is a good depth for AOW. Most AOW students have very little experience, and don't need to be going deeper than that.

:huh:

One of the deep dive objectives is to gain some experience with Nitrogen Narcosis in a supervised environment. You are timed on some basic task compared with how long it takes at the surface. On my recent AOW deep dive (about 92 ft) we did not notice any significant change - due no doubt to the totally trivial task we were given. I doubt that many divers would get a feel for Narcosis at 60-70 feet, which limits the usefulness of that sort of "deep" dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

:huh:

One of the deep dive objectives is to gain some experience with Nitrogen Narcosis in a supervised environment. You are timed on some basic task compared with how long it takes at the surface. On my recent AOW deep dive (about 92 ft) we did not notice any significant change - due no doubt to the totally trivial task we were given. I doubt that many divers would get a feel for Narcosis at 60-70 feet, which limits the usefulness of that sort of "deep" dive.

That exercise won't really tell you anything of value. A lot of factors can limit your ability to perform the task that have nothing to do with narcosis ... like the fact that you're wearing gloves, clearing your mask, fiddling with your BCD, or a host of others.

A far more practical exercise would be to learn how to plan a deep dive, based on your available gas supply. One very useful thing that students learn when they do that is that they shouldn't be going deep on a standard AL80 ... a bit of knowledge that can keep a lot of newer divers from ever having to engage other basic skills, like OOA or CESA.

There is NOTHING to be learned from taking a student to 100 feet, parking them on their knees, and having them solve a puzzle. Besides, narcosis is insidious ... you're likely to notice that your dive buddy's narced long before you notice that you are ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[jeckyll]

stargazer61: And narcosis varies from person to person and day to day. But think that scenario through a bit further.

If _you_ were an instructor. And the student to instructor ration was 6:1 would you want to have 6 students that are quite narced that you are now responsible for?

And when you think about that a bit further, would you really want to be one of the students during this time? With only 1/6th of the instructors attention focused on you?

I know what my answer is. YMMV of course

 

[h90]

I think most depends on the instructor.
Bad LDC with 9 bad instructor and 1 good will theach you good if you get the good instructor.
Good LDC with 1 bad instructor and 9 good will theach you bad if you get the bad one.

I think most depends on the person.

 

[Nudgeroni]

Thank you for all of your input, particularly NWGreatfulDiver-- I found your questions to be a great help.

The instructor I had for my certification first learned to dive with the Marines back in the late 50s, and has been a DM for a long time. His thoughts on AOW is that the knowlege and experience gained in the class are essential, and shouldn't even be considered 'advanced.' The aspects of the class he seemed to emphasize the most relate to buoyancy and navigation, but I'm sure he'll cover all the bases.

Regarding narcosis, if I have a choice between experiencing it for the first time with a class and 1/6th of an instructor, or alone with an inexperienced buddy, I would prefer to have an instructor present.

:thinkingo

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Regarding narcosis, if I have a choice between experiencing it for the first time with a class and 1/6th of an instructor, or alone with an inexperienced buddy, I would prefer to have an instructor present.

:thinkingo

Certainly you should do your first deep dive with an instructor or experienced diver. There's no question about it.

My statement had to do with the "exercise" most instructors choose to provide while at depth ... and how they choose to provide it.

Does anyone ever really learn anything useful by solving a puzzle or opening a lock at 100 feet?

How does your instructor teach you how to prepare for a deep dive? For the instructors out there ... what skills do you emphasize? Why?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Nudgeroni]

My statement had to do with the "exercise" most instructors choose to provide while at depth ... and how they choose to provide it.

Does anyone ever really learn anything useful by solving a puzzle or opening a lock at 100 feet?

How does your instructor teach you how to prepare for a deep dive? For the instructors out there ... what skills do you emphasize? Why?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I hear you, and agree. I value practical exercises and a critical evaluation of practiced skills. I'm not particularly interested in opening a lock-- or doing my taxes at 100ft.

 

[stargazer61]

stargazer61: And narcosis varies from person to person and day to day. But think that scenario through a bit further.

If _you_ were an instructor. And the student to instructor ration was 6:1 would you want to have 6 students that are quite narced that you are now responsible for?

And when you think about that a bit further, would you really want to be one of the students during this time? With only 1/6th of the instructors attention focused on you?

I know what my answer is. YMMV of course

I take your point about maintaining control and safety of the group. We had 7 students in our group and were accompanied by a DM in addition to the instructor. Clearly you need sufficient supervision to do the deep dive safely. But you also need the dive to be deep enough so that you are getting useful training. I would not expect that my new AOW cert qualified me to 70ft only. Part of my motivation for doing the AOW was to gain the experience required to dive some wrecks in 90-100 ft.

Having said that, what I got out of AOW was mostly an insight into how much I still had to learn. After the course I still consider myself far from proficient at all of the 5 specialties. We did deep, nav, wreck, night and search and recovery. I hope to do the full specialty courses in time.