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Evolution for configuration

Discussion in 'Hogarthian Diving' started by brian cooper, Sep 19, 2004.

  1. brian cooper

    brian cooper Nassau Grouper

    99
    2
    0
    Hi all,

    Treat it as serious, rant and rave, contradict me I don't care just dont ignore me.

    I've been diving for nearly 30 years and MY gear is constantly being evolved, due basically to the fact that I often have to have redundancy to look after trainees (duty of care not to drown them...)and I'm now starting to dive that little deeper/ longer (eg 43metres, bottom time 23 min, with 32 min of deco on the way back up)

    My current set-up is as follows:-
    10.4 litre X 2, 232bar manifolded/isolated twin set mounted Up side down like the Navy/firemen/military...Why not divers?
    Right/h side pillar:-long hose on primary reg (I've had a long hose for about 8 years) and the inflator hose to my wing, which is also the hose for my AP Valves AutoAir mounted on the corrigated hose. This is a Quantum leap forward from an Air2
    Left/h side pillar:-Dry suit inflator,BC inflator with yes another AP Valves AutoAir and the HP air integrated computer.

    As you can see I have 3 automatic/don't have to press any buttons air supplies that are ALL rated to 50 metres.

    http://www.apvalves.com/Prdtsfrmset.html
    scroll down til you hit the AutoAir .....same people who do the Inspiration Rebreather

    The inflator hoses are interchangeable on both wing and BC.
    I can isolate very quickly and single handed the air supplies from both bottles using the standard shut down procedures and then switch back on to get the air from one cylinder out of the opposite hand reg.
    The kit is very streamlined as the 2 direct feeds come up between the cylinders and the long hose comes under the right arm, the air integrated computer clips to the left side of the BC and is visible along with the compass mounted on its end...I never said I was D*R...
    I could reach my pillar valves when the set was "Right way up" but was a strain for my 55 year old arms when dressed in full drysuit (Neoprene 8mm thick)and I didn't want one of the remote wire cables to operate the isolation valve as I had heard of a couple of failures.

    Upside down also 100% stops roll on or roll offs as the pillar valves and regs are protected.

    Just to further the discussion and promote a response without trolling:-
    What lift do you require in total if your buddy/trainee has a failure at the start of a bottom time when he(or she) has still got the weight of their gas but can't get at it and you require enough to lift you both and supply air as well?
    Yes my BC also has a 0.4litre 232bar emergancy air cylinder.
    The rest of my gear is less contenscious but if you need (as in MUST HAVE)something ...Take 2 if you don't need it leave it behind
    Torch primary:-Greenforce F11 HID with goodman handle and Backup bungeed on to left side, near to my spare mask
    Where do you store your flairs and Mobile phone?

    Run it up the flag pole and see who salutes

    Cheers
    Brian C
     
  2. SDAnderson

    SDAnderson Dive Charter

    # of Dives:
    Location: On a good day, Lake Michigan
    3,305
    77
    0
    I've been diving for nearly 30 years and MY gear is constantly being evolved, due basically to the fact that I often have to have redundancy to look after trainees (duty of care not to drown them...)and I'm now starting to dive that little deeper/ longer (eg 43metres, bottom time 23 min, with 32 min of deco on the way back up)

    I've been diving for nearly 35 years and MY gear is constantly evolving, basically due to the fact that technology and technique and demands are constantly evolving. There's no such thing as stasis, besides, it's more fun this way.

    My current set-up is as follows:-
    10.4 litre X 2, 232bar manifolded/isolated twin set mounted Up side down like the Navy/firemen/military...Why not divers?

    Divers have different needs and different problems to solve. As an example: a fireman moving quickly through a dynamic structure in poor visibility where entanglement hazards are numerous and immediately dangerous will have a different perspective on the valve up configuration than a diver moving slowly through a structure that is basically static and where there is normally time to deal with an entanglement. Secondarily, the fireman is wearing a high-tech hoop-wrapped cylinder designed to be lightweight, if he needs to sit down there is far less likelihood that he will damage the valves compared to a diver who is probably wearing more than 100 pounds of steel and basically sits down in a controlled fall.

    Right/h side pillar:-long hose on primary reg (I've had a long hose for about 8 years) and the inflator hose to my wing, which is also the hose for my AP Valves AutoAir mounted on the corrigated hose. This is a Quantum leap forward from an Air2
    Left/h side pillar:-Dry suit inflator,BC inflator with yes another AP Valves AutoAir and the HP air integrated computer.

    As you can see I have 3 automatic/don't have to press any buttons air supplies that are ALL rated to 50 metres.

    Do you need three? The essence of Hogarthian gear configurations is that if you NEED it, you take it. If you don't, you leave it behind. I haven't tried the AutoAir, but I'm glad to hear that it's a quantum leap forward from the Air2, which I have tried and abandoned. If you can you handle the AutoAir in an emergency when you need to breathe it, control your bouyancy and manage a distressed diver all at the same time, more power to you. I'll stick with my bungeed alternate for now.

    http://www.apvalves.com/Prdtsfrmset.html
    scroll down til you hit the AutoAir .....same people who do the Inspiration Rebreather

    Not necessarily the strongest recommendation, although AP Valves are generally pretty well regarded on this side of the pond.

    The inflator hoses are interchangeable on both wing and BC.
    I can isolate very quickly and single handed the air supplies from both bottles using the standard shut down procedures and then switch back on to get the air from one cylinder out of the opposite hand reg.
    The kit is very streamlined as the 2 direct feeds come up between the cylinders and the long hose comes under the right arm, the air integrated computer clips to the left side of the BC and is visible along with the compass mounted on its end...I never said I was D*R...

    Clearly not but that's okay, I'm not, either. :wink:

    I could reach my pillar valves when the set was "Right way up" but was a strain for my 55 year old arms when dressed in full drysuit (Neoprene 8mm thick)and I didn't want one of the remote wire cables to operate the isolation valve as I had heard of a couple of failures.

    Glad to see you didn't opt for the slobwinder. I would have suggested yoga instead of inverting your tanks, however. It works for my 50 year old arms.​



    Upside down also 100% stops roll on or roll offs as the pillar valves and regs are protected.

    True enough, until you sit down on a rocking boat...​



    Just to further the discussion and promote a response without trolling:-
    What lift do you require in total if your buddy/trainee has a failure at the start of a bottom time when he(or she) has still got the weight of their gas but can't get at it and you require enough to lift you both and supply air as well?

    The amount will vary - how negative are the divers on the surface, what kind of thermal protection are they wearing, how much gas are they carrying, etc. A couple of warm water divers in skins on singles at 60 feet aren't going to be nearly as negative as a couple of cold water divers wearing 7mm drysuits with heavy doubles at 200 feet. In my shell drysuit with heavy underwear and full double LP 104's, I'm pretty negative but I couldn't tell you exactly how much so. I dive with a 55 pound wing and it's sufficient for me, if I need more lift I've got my drysuit, my buddy, a lift bag/smb or two, etc.​



    Yes my BC also has a 0.4litre 232bar emergancy air cylinder.

    Gack. I'm feeling a hairball coming up.​



    The rest of my gear is less contenscious but if you need (as in MUST HAVE)something ...Take 2 if you don't need it leave it behind

    Torch primary:-Greenforce F11 HID with goodman handle and Backup bungeed on to left side, near to my spare mask
    Where do you store your flairs and Mobile phone?

    I've seen the Greenforce light a couple of times and it seems solidly built. I mount my battery on my waistband and clip the lighthead to a D-ring. My spare mask is in a pocket, over here flairs are a kind of pen, and my cell phone stays on the boat or in the car.​



    Run it up the flag pole and see who salutes

    Achtung, baby! If you're a troll, you snagged me.​


     
  3. simbrooks

    simbrooks Snr LayZboy Meteorologist ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Orlando, Fl
    7,352
    13
    0
    I cant add anything to Reefraff's fairly compelling arguement (for some reason i had also wondered why people didnt/couldnt rig it upside down - call it a newbie brain fart when i first started out and had a fireman roommate - i had since forgotten about this question), however i do wonder if some of the basis for the arguement is not relevant in some UK diving (compared to over here). Many in the UK use RIB's and could don in the boat (on soft inflatable cells along/which are the gunwales and roll off and for recovery, doff in water and retrieve after climbing in - removing some chance of the valves being damaged by sitting/falling down in the doubles. Again i have only seen this type of stuff a few times in a popular diving area where i used to live almost a decade ago (memory might be rusty, but sounds reasonable).
     
  4. Otter

    Otter ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: SoCal (native)
    3,325
    13
    38
    Steven,
    Whether you know it or not, I have respected your views expressed out front and in the back....so what's your problem with the emergency air cylinder?
     

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