Expectations of OW certification

[O-ring]

With the resort economy being what it is, sometimes there is little motivation to pursue AOW or higher. For example, my LDS will NOT take you past 60 fsw or on night dives, etc. unless you are AOW in those areas...no AOW, no deeper than 60 fsw...period (you can't even go on the trip without AOW). Seems to me that is a good policy to encourage further education and promote safe divers graduating their programs.

However, some resorts we have stayed at have led groups down past the decompression limits and routinely taken people who couldn't even maintain horizontal water position and stood on reefs on two tank dives all week. Most of them will do night dives as well without anything other than an OW c-card presented on the day of check-in.

Non-universal application of standards seems to be one reason people don't continue - if I can do night dives without taking a night course and I can do deep dives without a deep diving course, why pay to take the courses? (not my feeling, but I can see the point)...

 

[JamesK]

Originally posted by Bobb
Just a Thought....I was wondering if anyone knows or has even heard of anyone not getting certified because of lack of skills/learning?
How about it?

Yep. There was one other person in my class. That person did not get certified because of skills.


Ber Rabbit,
How do you clear your mask by purging your regulator into it? That is a new one to me. I am going to have to try it.

 

[Walter]

"Non-universal application of standards seems to be one reason people don't continue - if I can do night dives without taking a night course and I can do deep dives without a deep diving course, why pay to take the courses?"

There can be no universal application of standards for two reasons.

First, standards refer to training, not to diving. We can recommend not exceeding conditions in which you've been trained, but there is no way to limit what anyone does on their own.

Second, there are no universal standards.

While there are things to learn about deep diving, much of it (within traditional depth limits) is learned through experience. There is absolutely no reason why an OW diver should not gather experience diving at 60 ft then gather additional experience at 70 ft, slowly increasing depth and experience without taking a class. While diving between 60 - 100 ft should be part of any advanced course a more important aspect of it is the 10 additional supervised dives under various conditions and with various goals. Low viz, search & recovery, etc. give a relatively new diver an overview of what diving can be.

 

[BlowHole]

I'm currently in my OW class and will complete my open water this weekend in Monterey. Tonight is my last confined water dive. I went into the scuba class with my own high expectations. If I could not perform the skills required to the level of my comfort and expectations, then I would not continue diving. I don't care if I received my C-card or not. Fortunately, that hasn't been the case upto this point. Actually, I've done quite well and have had a blast during the pool sessions and can't wait for the ocean dives. I believe I will be certified this weekend, but I fully intend to continue practicing, especially with buoyancy control. I didn't realize that breathing played such a major role in buoyancy control. Diving is finitely a learned skill and I can't imagine diving without knowing, very well, how to clear my mask, tow a buddy back to shore, etc.

I want to thank everyone in this board for their great tips and advice. If anyone is ever in the Monterey Bay area let me know, maybe we could go diving. I'll let you all know how my ocean dives go.

Jim

 

[cougar]

Reading this post I realize how incredibly fortunate my daughter andI were. Our OW course took about ten days...We studied our books religiously, watched all teh films and then had long conversations with our instructor about the "whys and wherefores" of what we'd learned. We had 11 dives with our instructor. (OK...I think he liked my pretty daughter) Removing her mask underwater was a problem for Tina...the minute the mask came off she tried to breath through her nose. Carlos worked with her until she got it. Did what ever it took. I don't think he made a lot of money off our instruction because he took it so slow. But we are going back for our advanced with the same instructor because he was so good. We never had pool time...we used a very large heated pool called the Caribbean for learning basic skills. Before he signed off on us we both:

Had good bouyancy control and could move through complex coral formations and never touch the coral.

Remove all equipment except the regulator at 30 feet and put it all back on again...also remove regulator and reliably find it and clear it on the first try

Clear masks effortlessly without slowing down

Make safe ascents and safety stops

Have some clue where shore was and how to find our way back to the boat (not a navigation course...but at least don't be dumb) Really pay attention on ascents nottime come up undre or in the way of a boat

Be able to hang and hover in one spot.

Really pay attention to our own guages...yes he checked them for us frequently...but he pointed out he wouldn't always be with us and we learned to pay sharp atention to our own air, depth and time

Handle problems like free flowing regulators

Scooby asked why divers worry so much about others abilities. At least for us..we watched other divers to guage our own progress. When we saw people in fancy equipment who told us they had been diving for years and they were banging off the coral...snagging hoses and gettting disoriented...we figured we were doing pretty well. At this point with my very own C-card...I figure I have a learners permit to improve... I am REALLY glad our instructors name is our C-cards because he was terrific and I also feel a responsibilty not to do anyhing stupid that would embarrass him when people know we are his students.
Not all instructors are created equal.
:baby:

 

[O-ring]

First, standards refer to training, not to diving. We can recommend not exceeding conditions in which you've been trained, but there is no way to limit what anyone does on their own.

I agree that you cannot control what people do on their own, but the "please everyone" mentality of the resort dive operations seems to defy common sense. Some dive leaders talk to the group on board and figure out skill levels, etc. before choosing a dive site, others just go wherever the hell they want or where people ask them to go and expect everyone to follow while he/she penetrates a wreck, etc. I have seen a lot of people doing "stupid" things because the dive leader encouraged it or led them into it. Were they truly doing it on their own then?

While there are things to learn about deep diving, much of it (within traditional depth limits) is learned through experience.

Good point. Guess it holds that there are good and bad divers and no way to stop the bad ones from being on your boat. Besides, the caribbean divemaster's boss (resort manager) would probably have him for lunch if he started denying guests dives just because they stink at it but have fat wallets.

 

[Choke]

Cougar, great post. I take my hat off to you.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

It's not easy to do and it takes A LOT of air. Basically you free-flow your octopus by your cheek while breaking the seal of the mask with your other hand. You have to break the seal enough to let the bubbles from the free-flow into the mask without re-flooding it. I DEFINITELY do not recommend that method but it's kind of fun to try IN THE POOL. If you want something else that's fun IN THE POOL free flow your primary reg and see how far away from your mouth you can get it and still breathe off of it. You have to breathe like you're sipping through a straw. You might be able to breathe off of your reg with it 5-8 inches from your mouth.

ENJOY!
Ber

 

[MNScuba]

As someone currently going through the course, here is what I expect:

1. To be comfortable under the water with gear on.
2. To know the basics of scuba.
3. To be able to know when my buddy or I are in danger.
4. To have the ability to don/doff gear.
5. To have an understanding of how the equipment works.
6. To know simple right/wrong's of diving.
7. To have the skills necessary for others to trust their lives with me.
8. To know the difference between a good time and foolishness.
9. To know what my limits are and how to stay within them.
10. To be able to have confidence under the water in my new environment.

 

[wvrotorhead]

Well, I had this long, drawn out post in mind, but Murdock said it best so, I just second what he said with one small addition. I expect to have a ball. I mean, yeah, I look forward to learning more technical aspects of diving and dive gear. But I expect to surface from every dive with a big smile on my face. Now if I get in over my head (no pun intended here) and start doing something stupid, chances are I ain't gonna be smiling when I claw my way to the surface.
I think if we stay within our skills and training, don't push our respective envelpies, and use a healthy dose of common sense, then we newbies can be just as safe as a guy/gal with a thousand dives. Of course, we won't be in the same situations or environments, but we can still surface smiling...

Billy