Farming vs. Wild (split from Seal Slaughter)

[Hank49]

Pressure on third world countries by exposure of environmental issues probably has done alot to encourage modernization of shrimp aquaculture.
I love shrimp. But I don't like the damage done by "bycatch" with wild shrimp harvesting. Isn't it like for every pound of shrimp, about 10 pounds of wastage we do to other sea creatures? But the alternative, aquaculture has to be watched with a wary eye, so we don't rape the environment needlessly. As the people who work on these farms are dirt poor to start with, we can not let them destroy their natural resources.

I am glad there are experts who are willing to lend a hand and teach these farms the correct methods to maximize harvest. Here is an article about the man in Michigan. You might have heard of him? USMSFP - U.S. Marine Shrimp Farming Program

Pressure to drive down cost is the engine for modernization of shrimp farming. You're right, shrimp trawlers are among the worst at wasting bycatch.
I haven't met Russ Allen, but he helped start up Belize Aquaculture in its infancy. Then a friend of mine now working in Thailand took over management until 2001, at which time I started managing it. I question the statement that he can produce shrimp at 70 cents/ lb in Michigan. The most efficient farms in the world produce at about that cost. Economy of scale and vertical integration is the name of the game. His post larval (baby shrimp) cost at his level....I would doubt he produces them... are costing him at least $12-15 per thousand including freight. Our cost here is $1.25.....actually the cost to the farm is $0 since we sell enough to other farms to pay for our hatchery operation. He must not be counting labor either....perhaps he and his wife feed and maintain the tanks. His feed is probably a few cents a lb cheaper due to freight cost but since he uses such a small volume, he doesn't get the discounts that larger farms get.
Temperature in Michigan is too cold other than perhaps the mid summer months. Belize and Hawaii are too cold in the winter months for shrimp. They don't grow much at all. If he has to heat his building, the cost goes up again. I would seriously doubt his cost is less then $2.75 for whole shrimp. His only saving grace is a limited, fresh market locally where he can get over $5/lb. I have friends in Hawaii who are barely scraping by doing the same thing.
And we're not experts "lending a hand" so they can save their environment. We're in it for the money.....(nomadic shrimp mercenaries, if you will) and getting to live in tropical countries with good, warm water diving.

 

[perdidochas]

Fish farming can be very harmful to the environment. Might even be more harmful than drag net and gill net. I can not say that seal hunting is as disruptive as fish or shrimp farming.

I would tend to agree.

 

[perdidochas]

Yeah...and lets eat wild turkey on Thanksgiving and Xmas. Wouldn't want to eat farmed turkey.
How long do you think it would take to decimate the wild turkey stocks??

People who are opposed to farming should really give their head a shake...the wild fish stocks are not sustainable at the rate we are harvesting.

Do your own research, walk on a fish farm, ask the questions and dont let the enviro-groups that make $ off of bad press make up your mind for you.
I know a lot of aquaculturalists and they are some of the most enviro-conscious people I know. They hold themselves and their products and the environment around them to very high standards.

You're probably right in the developed world. The fish farmers here are very environmentally conscious. It's the fish and shrimp farmers of the developing world that I don't trust environmentally. Regardless, this seal harvest is not harmful to the ecosystem as a whole. The seal population is steady or growing.

 

[fisherdvm]

I often have wondered - when folks break out in hives from eating shrimp and fish - is it really shellfish and seafood allergy? Or, is it an allergic reaction to antibiotic residue in the fish/shrimp that we eat?

The dairy industry has meticulous antibiotic testing program for milk and cheese, even with this, some people allergic to antibiotics still can't drink milk. In meat, a swab test is done on each animal, and the rate of contamination is quite high 1-2% of the carcasses.

I'm not sure how well antibiotic residue is tested in shrimp and fish, can you tell us?? I wonder if the USDA do random testing of imported shrimp for antibiotic residue?

 

[fisherdvm]

Something to ponder: IMPORTED SHRIMP: TRAWLING FOR TROUBLE | EATING LIBERALLY

Avoid imported shrimp, whether wild-caught or farmed. Foreign sources of shrimp, especially from Asia, are problematic. Wild fisheries cause huge amounts of bycatch, killing endangered sea turtles and whales. And coastal farming operations, like those in China, are destroying mangrove forests and coastal wetlands…

…between three and fifteen pounds of unwanted animals are caught and discarded as bycatch for every pound of shrimp landed in tropical shrimp trawling. This is the highest bycatch of any commercial fishery…

Antibiotics are widely used to damp down diseases exacerbated by the concentrations of animals living in shrimp farms. European countries banned farmed shrimp imports from China, Indonesia and Vietnam in 2002 because of concerns about antibiotic residue. No such ban was enacted in the U.S.

Release of untreated wastes from coastal shrimp aquaculture in Asia is common, despite existing technology that could mitigate its environmental impact.

And the FDA only inspects 1.2 percent of imported seafood, according to Food and Water Watch. Without additional funding from Congress, the FDA can’t significantly increase physical inspections and testing of imported seafood.

Do you really want to keep eating a product that Europe deems too toxic to consume? Switch to domestic wild-caught or responsibly farm-raised shrimp, if you can find it; thanks to loopholes in the USDA’s country-of-origin food labeling laws, roughly half the seafood sold in our supermarkets is unlabeled.

Consumers can demand that Congress fund more FDA inspections, and get the USDA to close the labeling law loopholes. The Monterey Bay Aquarium’s Seafood Watch is a great place to begin if you’d like to take action.

 

[Hank49]

I'm not sure how well antibiotic residue is tested in shrimp and fish, can you tell us?? I wonder if the USDA do random testing of imported shrimp for antibiotic residue?

Shrimp are randomly tested coming into the USA. There are accepted antibiotics that are used such as oxytetracycline and floramphenicol. The big scare in 02 was from chloramphenicol residues found in shrimp from Thailand and China.
Europe has much stricter standards than the US for some reason. They also are against Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs).

The other quote you copy and pasted from that site is bulls**t. I don't care what kind of farming you do, you will destroy the "natural" environment. Whether it's the Great Plains of the USA, or the ricelands in the Mississippi Delta, to the cornfields of Iowa and Ohio....or some coastal wetlands in SE Asia. Aquaculture is here to stay and will play a major roll in feeding 10 or 100 billion people in this world some day. The sea is the most abundant resource we have for food culture. The damage done by aquaculture isn't near the damage done by resorts and coastal residence projects. Ever try to get RID of mangroves? Try it. It's a weed that keeps coming back. Ever fished at the outlet of a fish or shrimp farm? Ask the local fishermen where the best fishing is. Polluted ponds? Give me a break...the shrimp will die. Anyway, that's all I have to say about this tired old argument. But if you get down to Belize, come and I'll show you around. Maybe it will open your eyes.

 

[Underwater Ogre]

I often have wondered - when folks break out in hives from eating shrimp and fish - is it really shellfish and seafood allergy? Or, is it an allergic reaction to antibiotic residue in the fish/shrimp that we eat?

The dairy industry has meticulous antibiotic testing program for milk and cheese, even with this, some people allergic to antibiotics still can't drink milk. In meat, a swab test is done on each animal, and the rate of contamination is quite high 1-2% of the carcasses.

I'm not sure how well antibiotic residue is tested in shrimp and fish, can you tell us?? I wonder if the USDA do random testing of imported shrimp for antibiotic residue?

When fin fish are harvested, a record of the drugs and dosage are sent with the stock , if they have had any. There is a required "no harvest time" or "clearance time". This standard is set by food and drug admin. and is 3 to 4 times longer then the drug manufactures suggest. Random sampling does happen, and if a product is found to have traces...you wont be selling your product for quite awhile. Not something you want to toy with.

 

[fisherdvm]

If the claim that the FDA inspect only 1.5% of imported seafood is true, who is to regulate? I guess if it is random sampling of 1.5% of ALL shrimps samples - then that is OK. If it is only 1.5% of all shipments - that is grossly inadequate.

Stagnant ponds or ponds using filtered water certainly can recirculate antitibiotics, right? So how can you observe clearance time or no harvest time? Do you have to exhaust or flush your pond's water after each antibiotic treatment? They are swimming in their own feces and urine, you know...

In a herd of dairy cows I used to milk, we lost 2000 gallons of milk one day, because a milker accidentally milked a tagged cow into the tank. $2000 gone because of a little antibiotic contamination.

Of course, if you bought preprocessed frozen cooked shrimp from oversea - it is a little too late to test for antibiotic contamination. I always wondered about those coconut shrimp - are they processed, cooked, and fried in the country of origin?

 

[perdidochas]

I often have wondered - when folks break out in hives from eating shrimp and fish - is it really shellfish and seafood allergy? Or, is it an allergic reaction to antibiotic residue in the fish/shrimp that we eat?

Wild caught shrimp don't have antibiotics. My sister-in-law is allergic to shrimp--wild caught as well as farmed.

The dairy industry has meticulous antibiotic testing program for milk and cheese, even with this, some people allergic to antibiotics still can't drink milk. In meat, a swab test is done on each animal, and the rate of contamination is quite high 1-2% of the carcasses.

I'm not sure how well antibiotic residue is tested in shrimp and fish, can you tell us?? I wonder if the USDA do random testing of imported shrimp for antibiotic residue?

Probably not.