Farming vs. Wild (split from Seal Slaughter)

[fisherdvm]

I think to buy organic grown pork, and free range hen laying eggs is very much like purchasing "tree credit" in afghanistan so you can drive your SUV guilt free. Kinda like purchasing indulgence in the middle age, so you can commit adultery and still earn grace for heaven.

I think the humane society has done an excellent job exposing animal cruelty in the food industry. Money spent supporting them is better than buying free range chicken. We can not change the lifestyle of an average american unless gas price goes over $6 a gallon, and we can not change the food industry if children and low income population still needs economical source of dairy and egg products.

I am in full support of the humane society's work. Less for radical organisations like PETA. Let just say their stance against the seal hunt is different than mine.

 

[D_B]

I see your point, but in this case, there is still a direct practical benefit to you ... that of eating something, that as far as I can tell, is a better, healthier product
Edit: according the this, there is a 20% growth per year in organic produce .. Organic food - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (I know, wikipedia, but it was easy to find)

It looks as if more and more people are concerned about what they eat, and how it's produced .. I think in the long run that the enviroment, and the animals will be better for it

(Sorry, hijack ... but it sorta ties in to this thread ... kinda)

 

[wardric]

Yep, not to forget the transport conditions of farm animals to the slaughterhouses. $$$ Costs saved on ventilation and water supply is higher than the $$$ cost of animals lost during transportation.

Small farms are almost all gone in Quebec. They just cant compete.

I lost respect for the Humane Society after some of their interventions with animals including seals.

 

[fisherdvm]

The humane society does good work. But likely their biggest contributors, supporters, and leaders are leaning left.

It could also be that they need an emotional issue to raise money. Folks don't seem to care about chickens, pigs, and cows; as long as they are happy driving to the Steak House in their Expedition SUV. But they will shell out big money to save a cuddly baby faced seal.

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

Aquaculture can be very good for the environment. Or very bad. Shrimp farming devastate mangrove swamps, and releases antibiotics, waste run offs, and removes precious environment for the protection of juvenile fish, birds, and shellfish. In the same way, salmon farming also can introduce disease, antibiotic waste, and cause pollution to river and bays.

You might be correct in saying that catfish and tilipia farming is sustainable. But also remember that the grass carps, which eventually will enter the great lakes, were introduced as part of aquaculture.

You are encouraging the unnatural way of harvesting food. Locking animals up in over crowded pens, eating preprocessed food, and all the while imagining that your supermarket is stocked with "free range additive free chickens".

Again, I'd rather be a wild salmon taking my chances with the fisherman's net, a wild seal taking my chances with hunters, or a wild animal facing nature as it intended. Than to be cooped up in an unsanitary pen suffering until the day I am slaughtered. I eat turkey, beef, pork ... But I don't have qualms about hunters and fishermen. Because I think there is much more that can be done to eliminate animal suffering than worrying about the seal harvest.

These seals suffer no more than a few minutes of pain before their death.

Broiler chickens suffer 8 weeks, beef cattle 2 years, pigs 6 months, and egg laying hens 2 years .... Before they can be slaughtered. Their death maybe "humane", but their life is far from it.

I can agree with this post. A lot of good points made.

 

[Underwater Ogre]

Problems associated with open-net-cage salmon farming include:

Sea lice and disease from farmed salmon threaten wild stocks.
Pollution from farms contaminates surrounding waters.
Drugs, including antibiotics, are required to keep farmed fish healthy.
Escapes of farmed fish (alien species) threaten native wild fish.
Net loss: Farmed fish are fed pellets made from other fish, depleting other fish species on a global scale.

(that's a cut and paste from the David Suzuki foundation btw)

David Suzuki Foundation: Open-net-cage fish farming

I am not a fan of this site it is filled with misconceptions...I could go on for hours. It sad people take everything they read and call it gospel. I know the facts in salmon farming and have watched it grow from a fledging to a very viable sustainable industry with high standards.
I could paste a ton of sites on here...but then I am doing the same thing as the rest of the posters.

A few thing I will tell you is "Salmon only grow well with extremely high husbandry standards" with out that no one benefits, no profit and no sustainability. The percentage of therapeutics is less then any other culture industry. I could go on but...it seems no one would believe me. They would rather have the "drama" which isnt there.

Unfortunately the eco-industry started with commercial fishing industry...that didnt get enough exposure...then they went on to the logging industry...that got boring..."lil boy who cried wolf"...everyone got tired of that and stopped pumping money into it. Now...lets jump on the next band wagon. Fish farming!!

These facts are what I know and have seen not what I read on the internet and media.

I am a environmentally conscious person and you dont seemed to believe that...and its printed on the internet.

If you would like the "real" facts you can PM me and I would be happy to take you on a tour of the industry.

 

[wardric]

I am not a fan of this site it is filled with misconceptions...I could go on for hours. It sad people take everything they read and call it gospel. I know the facts in salmon farming and have watched it grow from a fledging to a very viable sustainable industry with high standards.
I could paste a ton of sites on here...but then I am doing the same thing as the rest of the posters.

A few thing I will tell you is "Salmon only grow well with extremely high husbandry standards" with out that no one benefits, no profit and no sustainability. The percentage of therapeutics is less then any other culture industry. I could go on but...it seems no one would believe me. They would rather have the "drama" which isnt there.

Unfortunately the eco-industry started with commercial fishing industry...that didnt get enough exposure...then they went on to the logging industry...that got boring..."lil boy who cried wolf"...everyone got tired of that and stopped pumping money into it. Now...lets jump on the next band wagon. Fish farming!!

These facts are what I know and have seen not what I read on the internet and media.

I am a environmentally conscious person and you dont seemed to believe that...and its printed on the internet.

If you would like the "real" facts you can PM me and I would be happy to take you on a tour of the industry.

i'll accept your invitation. I know you cant trust everything on the net but I usually like David Suzuki's positions on environmental subjects.

 

[cdreamer]

Are their any codfish hatcheries in Eastern Canada? Has any substantial work been done
to replenish the codfish population? Any promising results from hatch and release?
Here in Maryland they do this with oysters and blue crabs. Not always successful for various
reasons, mainly, I think because the bay is just too polluted.

 

[fisherdvm]

A few thing I will tell you is "Salmon only grow well with extremely high husbandry standards" with out that no one benefits, no profit and no sustainability. The percentage of therapeutics is less then any other culture industry. I could go on but...it seems no one would believe me. They would rather have the "drama" which isnt there.

My only objection, if what you said is true, is at the top of the food pyramid, we are producing a very expensive (environmental cost) food product.

I would rather see the waste product of commercial fisheries go toward animal feed, and converted into beef, pork, or chicken - rather than fish.

Why? We can manage manure and waste products of land animals better. The waste is collected, and used as fertilizer for our farm produce.

Waste product from the salmon industry goes directly into our lakes and water. Where else in the world do we let raw sewage directly into our streams, lakes and bays?

 

[Underwater Ogre]

My only objection, if what you said is true, is at the top of the food pyramid, we are producing a very expensive (environmental cost) food product.

I would rather see the waste product of commercial fisheries go toward animal feed, and converted into beef, pork, or chicken - rather than fish.

Why? We can manage manure and waste products of land animals better. The waste is collected, and used as fertilizer for our farm produce.

Waste product from the salmon industry goes directly into our lakes and water. Where else in the world do we let raw sewage directly into our streams, lakes and bays?

Actually...
The FCR or feed conversion rate...the amount of energy put into the animal to how much protein you get out of it is far better in salmon farming. Fish like salmon...eat fish. Beef, pork and chicken never ate fish before domestication. You can see my point?

Pardon my French, but fish have been crapping in the ocean for quite some time. Its the aquaculturist's responsibility to ensure he or she is not creating a cesspool. The stocking densities are very low and the bottom benthic is monitored and compared to multiple control sites close by and many miles away to ensure mother nature is not getting hit.
Fallowing between crops is common practice...primarily for bio-security between year classes not waste issues.
And yes there are a lot of waste recovery systems in place where it can be used to make fertilizers.

Salmon farming is a fairly new industry and therefore hasn't as much time to get into habits that have been learned for hundreds of years. Some habits are hard to break. It is highly regulated, and science is the way it started. Check it out for yourself, the aquaculture act in British Columbia will blow your mind.

Feel free to ask any other questions...
I think we have hijacked this thread...maybe this discussion deserves its own?

Cheers
O