Fatality Off Miami Beach - Florida

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The usual practice in SE Asia is:
1. Hand in your weight belt FIRST.
2. Your bc(with tank) if your preferred.
3. Fins
These apply to ALL nationals.
Of course you can walk up the ladder in full kit.

The boatman is also trained to keep an eyes on all divers until they have all descent. The boat will then hang around near by for the first few minutes in case some divers return for assistance. It will then move to the anticipated pick up point.

However, if you do not understand the language used on the pre-dive briefing and also not familiar with the local diving procedure then....
 
The usual practice in SE Asia is:
1. Hand in your weight belt FIRST.
2. Your bc(with tank) if your preferred.
3. Fins
These apply to ALL nationals.
Of course you can walk up the ladder in full kit.

The boatman is also trained to keep an eyes on all divers until they have all descent. The boat will then hang around near by for the first few minutes in case some divers return for assistance. It will then move to the anticipated pick up point.

However, if you do not understand the language used on the pre-dive briefing and also not familiar with the local diving procedure then....
With those trained and only familiar with an integrated weight bc, what do you think they would do about a weight belt- something they might not even remember they have on ?
 
With those trained and only familiar with an integrated weight bc, what do you think they would do about a weight belt- something they might not even remember they have on ?
Most dive operators use weight non integrated bc in training because of the COST and practicality.
I have never came across any rental weight integrated bc before.
Of course there are divers who bought his/her bc(weight integrated) before their ow trainings but they are rare.
If the diver was giving non familiar equipment, who is to blame?
 
Most dive operators use weight non integrated bc in training because of the COST and practicality.
I have never came across any rental weight integrated bc before.
Of course there are divers who bought his/her bc(weight integrated) before their ow trainings but they are rare.
If the diver was giving non familiar equipment, who is to blame?
I don't want to suggest who is to blame.....that will be for investigators to figure out... We can help raise some good questions though..
One of the accounts was that this girl that died had to have the other girl set up her gear for her, that she was totally unfamiliar with it....there must have been MANY WITNESSES TO THIS....If this was going on just by itself, that is troubling....when combined with all the other issues we are now seeing involved, it may help explain how she ended up on the bottom without a bc or fins on....Something that is almost impossible to explain otherwise.
 
In one of the early posts on this thread, a Girl certified in Australia states that she was taught to take her gear off, and to hand it up before getting on a dive boat. In Fact, when I was diving in Fiji, where New Zealanders make up a large share of the clientelle, the same practice occurs--the boat crew at Beqa Lagoon Resort tells the divers to take off their BC's in the water, and fins, before coming up the ladder....As an Investigator, I think you might get some relevant intel by finding out if in the area where the Chinese girl was trained( assuming she did have a C-card), that they have a norm where gear is taken off and passed up before climbing up a ladder....And if she had been certified with an integrated weight BC, this then would indicate why she may not have figured out that the weight belt needed to come off.
There hasn't been any indication so far as to where the victim was certified, and things may be different in various parts of Asia. If she's from China as opposed to Malaysia or Singapore where there are lots of Chinese speakers as well, she's from East Asia, where I've never dived, but in my experience working and diving extensively all over SE Asia where many Chinese come to learn to dive in the Philippines, Thailand, and Malaysia, it all depends on the boat you're boarding whether you remove gear and pass it up or climb on board with equipment on. In some parts of SE Asia diving is typically done from quite small boats like dinghies or outriggers. In these cases, it's usual to remove gear and then pull yourself aboard or climb up a very small ladder. In other cases, and particularly when diving from big boats, it's usual to simply climb on board wearing everything. Here in Thailand, unless we have a dinghy pickup or dive from a longtail, we almost always get on the boat fully geared up, even on speedboats.

I believe that if this turns out to be a factor in the death of this unfortunate diver, it would be important to learn what her own past experience was in this regard--how she was trained and what procedures were followed where she had dived previously. Most student divers here in Thailand will not be taught to remove gear before boarding, and in fact, I make sure my own students are wearing their masks and have their regs in their mouths when they board the boats, just in case they fall back into the water from the ladder. In the case that I'm teaching people to board a dinghy, even with integrated weights, I have them remove the weights from their BCDs and pass the weights up first.

It's pretty hard for me to imagine, though, that even if a diver's previous experience and training involved removing and handing up gear that the victim would take off her gear thinking she was going to hand it up to staff without the staff being aware of it and noticing her get into trouble subsequently. Besides, it was reported that the gear was found floating on the surface, which indicates that it had not been handed up to the boat crew.

---------- Post added March 3rd, 2013 at 11:47 AM ----------

With those trained and only familiar with an integrated weight bc, what do you think they would do about a weight belt- something they might not even remember they have on ?
My school gear is all simple stuff and students wear weight belts. I don't know of any schools here that rent integrated weight BCDs. The weight pouches are too expensive to replace and people do lose stuff like this.
 
I don't want to suggest who is to blame.....that will be for investigators to figure out... We can help raise some good questions though..
One of the accounts was that this girl that died had to have the other girl set up her gear for her, that she was totally unfamiliar with it....there must have been MANY WITNESSES TO THIS....If this was going on just by itself, that is troubling....when combined with all the other issues we are now seeing involved, it may help explain how she ended up on the bottom without a bc or fins on....Something that is almost impossible to explain otherwise.
Of course we cannot blame anyone at the moment. But as you had said; it is surely a very strange case.
 
It is not just Asia where BCDs are removed and passed up. There are many operations in Australia and the Pacific where this happens. This is because the boats are small and it is virtually impossible to climb up the ladder with BCD and then get back to your spot. In many cases there are not even ladders (eg on small RIBs running from large liveaboards).
 
Speculation obviously but first thing to hand up should be weights, integrated or not. That should be part of the boat drill.

Second part is one should dive a balanced rig.
 
Speculation obviously but first thing to hand up should be weights, integrated or not. That should be part of the boat drill.

Second part is one should dive a balanced rig.


What does a balanced rig have to do with anything described in this thread???
 
What does a balanced rig have to do with anything described in this thread???

I don't know that this is something I would have brought up...but now that I think of it, if a Balanced Rig was something all OW students were trained in, and each realized they must attain, many accidents could be avoided....though this one looks like it would have been a very different training issue to blame.
 

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