Fatality on Rosalie Moller wreck

[wgw04024]

True, but doesn’t everybody keep their dive logs with how much weight they used with the type of gear/exposure protection they used on prior dives? By 100 dives one has a very good idea what they need in salt water vs fresh water with various suits gear. Certainly by 200 dives, you would think. And if the 201st dive is SO different either because of environment or gear from any prior dives, then spending 10 min figuring things out doesn’t seem to be a big deal.
There is something doesn’t quite make sense about this case. When I empty out to less than 700-500 psi, I already get a bit positive. You would think with half of the weights gone and near empty tank it would be easier to ascend even in OOA situation and get an extra breath or two from the tank or BC. Did she run out of air while still going down? Did she spit out a reg and inhaled water ? They found her next to the pouch that she dropped, which means she was very closed to it or had it back in her possession when she run out of air. I agree, that empty tank is a clue for OOA scenario.
She took diving classes, she dove a bunch, I think she knew what she was doing. I wonder if something catastrophic happened for her to disregard all the training and experience.

For me there is no mystery here. To make the decision to drop to 160' (for any reason other than one of your own children) after completely your dive, with at most 1/3 of an 80 cu ft tank left, is beyond comprehension.

 

[Jcp2]

It could have been an expensive BCD with an equally expensive replacement pocket. Some people have never used a weight belt before.

 

[dmaziuk]

You need to be able to hand off weights to do a proper buoyancy check. So you need to be prepared to remove them in the water or keep getting in and out. This is a load of hassle for a holiday diver.

My wife's aquapro has these quick release pockets that are good at quick releasing, but "handing off" weights results in weights going to the bottom 90% of the time. I.e. it's even more hassle with gear like that since you have to not use it and wear a belt instead.

Which some obsessive SBer might even claim they'd do, on their first dive of the trip, but this one wasn't.

 

[Bob DBF]

I don’t know if I’d be going after ANYone down to 150ft on air. I get narced out of my gourd at 130ft. I can’t imagine it would be a good situation at 150ft.

That's a good thing for one to know, and can prevent a fatal decision later on when one's cognitive skills may be impaired.

I would, under certain extenuating circumstances, because I have functioned at that depth before. Unfortunately, unless I had been recently diving those depths, I would not be able to accurately predict the condition I would be in upon arrival. I could not count on problem solving if my plan did not go smoothly. Narcosis makes one farm animal stupid, but even a farm animal can complete simple tasks.

It could have been an expensive BCD with an equally expensive replacement pocket. Some people have never used a weight belt before.

Pay the DM to go get it when you are back on the boat. I won't own gear I can't afford to leave on the bottom, or ditch when I have to, it's a survival strategy.

 

[beester]

@KenGordon agree 100%. It's hard to find a solution here, but you agree that life is more important than a bit of fun.

My belief here is that inexperience was the most important factor. Holiday/inexperienced divers shouldn't be doing dives like that IMHO, period.

Yes this! A wreck with a bottom at 50-55m is no place to be for a recreational diver even if the top is 30-35m. Most technical divers will plan their gas MOD (max operating depth) for a wreckdive for the bottom depth, even if they are planning to dive at a shallower average depth. You never know what happens.

Well you’re assumptions are wrong because it’s the very last thing I would do. Anyone used to working and diving in poor vis would never chase a dropped tool or gear as it could be a fatal mistake. If you drop something in poor vis with a mud or silt bottom it’s gone which is why all tools and gear are clipped on.

I agree totally... not only from a point of view of tools lost and breaking your gas reserves, but also because of dcs. But we are talking with experience in deeper diving. I've seen so many (even recovered some) deco stages being dropped during full trimix (T2) classes. Students need to tank rotate , and sometimes miss to clip the tank on correctly, dropping a deco stage. None of them would ever consider going down again from 9-6m to 50m+ to recover the stage (which is a much bigger investment, stage + rigging + regulator set vs weightpouch).

 

[ginti]

Well you’re assumptions are wrong because it’s the very last thing I would do. Anyone used to working and diving in poor vis would never chase a dropped tool or gear as it could be a fatal mistake. If you drop something in poor vis with a mud or silt bottom it’s gone which is why all tools and gear are clipped on.

I agree totally... not only from a point of view of tools lost and breaking your gas reserves, but also because of dcs. But we are talking with experience in deeper diving. I've seen so many (even recovered some) deco stages being dropped during full trimix (T2) classes. Students need to tank rotate , and sometimes miss to clip the tank on correctly, dropping a deco stage. None of them would ever consider going down again from 9-6m to 50m+ to recover the stage (which is a much bigger investment, stage + rigging + regulator set vs weightpouch).

I think you're both right when considering experienced divers. T2 students are way more advanced than the diver of this post. @mac64 , your 5000+ dives make you more experienced than the diver who died here.

As I suggested before, an inexperienced diver switching from cold/murky environment to a war/crystal-clear one will make mistakes, because this amazing visibility will give a false sense of control. How can I be so sure? It happened to me and to some friends (I know, not enough for generalizing to the entire world... just my experience)

 

[fsardone]

For me there is no mystery here. To make the decision to drop to 160' (for any reason other than one of your own children) after completely your dive, with at most 1/3 of an 80 cu ft tank left, is beyond comprehension.

Keep in mind that people with far more experience went down to 70 meters bounce dive after the two preceding ones, just to retrieve a grappling hook.
If such a lack of judgement can be seen in 2 accomplished tech divers (one is dead and the other now has so many legal problems that is not much better off) why are we beating to death a rec diver that just made a (albeit very) bad decision?
Let’s try to understand why at that time that diver thought that was a good idea and learn why it was not.
We are human we make mistakes. We need to implement decision models that take into account our fallacy and help us prevent our mistakes.

 

[CT-Rich]

Back when I was a kid learning deco from an old timer, the best advise he gave me was to make my decisions, minimum gas, maximum time, maximum depth, and so on, on the surface and don't violate them, even if.... You can fill in the blank. One cannot count on making a good decision when under the effects of narcosis.

Personally, I wouldn't make a fast decent to 150' to get anything but a family member, or some of my regular buddies, and I would be scared witless that it would not go well. This is from someone that has spent a reasonable amount of time below that depth on air. Narcosis is not a myth, and a deep dive cert gives no guidance in how many ways Nitrox might affect one, how to assess one's condition, or strategies to to make it to the surface alive. A puzzle or color chart is not calculating if you have enough air in your tank to make a normal ascent after a decent below rec limits.

I wouldn’t make a bounce dive to 150’ on a single full tank, much less than a nearly empty one. Just not worth it to recover a $25 weight pouch. One of my core philosophies is that you should never take anything into the water that you aren’t okay with losing.

This thread is quite preachy about overweighted divers.

The OP mentioned that he felt she was overweighted, that precipitated the discussion. Chasing the pouch was unnecessary even if she wasn’t overweighted. It probably is more a testament to her state of mind than any practical aspect of the dive. She made an irrational decision and is not around to explain her thought processes. Anxiety about an uncontrolled ascent could explain why she was overweighted and why she felt a need to chase the pouch.

 

[Bob DBF]

I wouldn’t make a bounce dive to 150’ on a single full tank, much less than a nearly empty one. Just not worth it to recover a $25 weight pouch. One of my core philosophies is that you should never take anything into the water that you aren’t okay with losing.

Our discussion, which wasn't clear in that isolated post, involved going after a family member, not a peice of gear.

Looking at my gear, you could tell I don't own anything I couldn't lose or ditch, and that's before my attitude on the subject. I'm with you, my gear isn't worth my life.

 

[Centrals]

A bounce dive to 50m on a single 11L tank is nothing to write home about!
But at the end of a dive with an nearly empty tank?
Two completely different matters.