Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

[Dsix36]

Let me break it to you, if you are planning and your goal is ABSOLUTE min amount of BO gas then you are fooling yourself, or been fooled.

Absolute min BO gas on OC will kill ya dead many times when things go pear shaped, on CCR it will killl you almost ALL of the time. So, if the whole idea of BO gas is to deal with an emergency, absolute min is most likely not going to be enough. That being the case, why even bring it? Seriously, just go "free-soloing" (to borrow a climbing term) and make it easier without even the "pretend" BO to lug around. If you want to do that, have at it, your life.

But it is my view that doing everything you can to shave carried BO gas in CCR diving is a poor approach that will yield poor results when needed. I also believe it would be amazingly irresponsible for a instructor to teach and advocate for such, unless they are marketing it truthfully "Let's make sure nobody calls you out for not enough bail out, we have come up with a great excuse that you can use to baffle those that feel you need adequate bail out gas when diving CCR"

I do not belief that you are too stupid to understand what I wrote. I believe that you are intentionally trying to twist what I wrote to serve your witch hunt.

No where did I say that anyone was to plan and execute a dive on absolute minimum amounts of BO gas.

Let me break it down for you this time: IT IS JUST A BASELINE TO WORK FROM.

I will define "baseline" further if you need that, or perhaps you can google it.

If your agenda to go after Peter has to involve dragging me into it, you better find a new approach, cause it is not going to work the way you think it will.

 

[The Chairman]

If your agenda to go after Peter has to involve dragging me into it, you better find a new approach, cause it is not going to work the way you think it will.

I agree... let the courts assign blame. We just need to focus on the accident, the resultant aftermath and how to avoid it. To recap my hypothesis on what happened. We have two separate events happening simultaneously. Sotis experienced some kind of physiological event which was probably hypercapnic in nature. Then, while the crew was tending to him, an otherwise fine Stewart removed his loop without shutting off the DSV. The unit flooded and pulled Stewart under quickly. His relative inexperience with rebreathers made it impossible for him to resolve the issue, so he drowned on the way down. A simple mistake probably cost him his life. I adhere to this because it fits the facts and is the simplest explanation of the events.

In addition, there are several lessons I draw from this.

• Accelerated training without commensurate experience is dangerous.
• Accelerated training without commensurate experience is dangerous. (Yeah, it bore repeating)
• Choose your instructor carefully. Your life may depend on it.
• Pushing your scrubber is never a good idea. Never exceed your limits!
• Three deco dives in a single day is probably a bad idea. Never exceed your limits!
• Dive conservatively. There's nothing down there worth dying for. Not even an anchor. Especially not an anchor. Never exceed your limits!
• Never leave an incident without trying to clean up your mess. The subsequent appearance of denial and avoidance of the problem only gives rise to lots of speculation about your character and fitness to be an instructor. That's a monkey I certainly don't want on my back.

For those of you who aren't rebreather pilots, don't let this incident deter you. With a modicum of caution and lots of diligence, rebreather training and diving is relatively safe. Just do your due diligence and don't exceed your limits.

 

[mdax]

I'm intrigued that anyone believes that setting a baseline for rebreather bailout using min rmv is logical.
If your baseline is a dead diver I'd concur.

I love when divers, instructors and captains chest thump, it's one of my favorite parts of this board.

 

[The Chairman]

I love when divers, instructors and captains chest thump, it's one of my favorite parts of this board.

Those who do it on the Board are usually put in their place. It becomes downright dangerous when a braggart is alone with their students. Students don't have the experience to separate fact from fantasy.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

So 3 deco dives in a day is a total violation of safe diving? Is 2 OK? How does one know to dive withing their limits without going over the line? Do the tech Diver manuals specify the number of deco dives allowed per day ?


Also net docs theory that the guy just sunk and lost control. Would he not have an OC bailout. Is this an example of death because of not dropping lead?

 

[hroark2112]

He should have had a bailout that was breathable on the surface. However if he passed out while on the loop, all the bailout gas in the world won't help (as well as dumping lead) if he's not conscious to use it. If anything he may not have inflated his wing enough to overcome the negative buoyancy of a flooded loop. I do know of another RB diver who routinely did not sufficiently fill his wing upon surfacing and passed out due to hypoxia at the surface. Luckily his buddy saw him go down and rescued him.

 

[CuzzA]

To recap my hypothesis on what happened. We have two separate events happening simultaneously. Sotis experienced some kind of physiological event which was probably hypercapnic in nature. Then, while the crew was tending to him, an otherwise fine Stewart removed his loop without shutting off the DSV. The unit flooded and pulled Stewart under quickly. His relative inexperience with rebreathers made it impossible for him to resolve the issue, so he drowned on the way down. A simple mistake probably cost him his life. I adhere to this because it fits the facts and is the simplest explanation of the events.

What makes you believe hypercapnic for Sotis? Secondly, Stewart is a pretty experienced diver. One would have to believe if he consciously became negative he would have the wherewithal to inflate his wing and/or drysuit, right? Not to mention bailout on OC to fix the buoyancy problem.

How could Sotis accumulate co2 in his loop? If Sotis started accumulating co2 in his loop it would be from breaking through his scrubber, right? I thought it was determined that would be unlikely with a fresh pack for these 3 dive. Unless of course the pack wasn't fresh or he was mixing old material with new material to save money. The latter of course would increase the possibility of channeling.

But even if he went hypercapnic at depth it would likely be a rough ascent/deco with Stewart, right? Where Stewart would likely be telling the crew Sotis has a problem, not a simple "ok."

I've never taken a co2 hit but it doesn't appear to be easily recoverable and it appears you would need a whole lot of bailout to reverse it, if you could even reverse it after having breathed for a long time off a compromised loop. Perhaps someone can explain it better to me. The video below is the only thing I have to go by for actually seeing a co2 incident on a rebreather.

 

[cerich]

I do not belief that you are too stupid to understand what I wrote. I believe that you are intentionally trying to twist what I wrote to serve your witch hunt.

No where did I say that anyone was to plan and execute a dive on absolute minimum amounts of BO gas.

Let me break it down for you this time: IT IS JUST A BASELINE TO WORK FROM.

I will define "baseline" further if you need that, or perhaps you can google it.

If your agenda to go after Peter has to involve dragging me into it, you better find a new approach, cause it is not going to work the way you think it will.

let me break it down for you..It's a very, very poor baseline to work from because in real life even thinking that is a baseline is flawed. Very flawed.

An absolute baseline for min BO gas planing starts with a real; understanding of the likely REAL world BO gas needed in an emergency, which is what BO gas is all about.

In flying terms, what you are saying a baseline would be ,like planing a flight with just enough gas to maybe possibly being able to glide in to a landing from your cruise altitude, without factoring in things like wind, altitude density etc.

it's grossly poor.

 

[The Chairman]

So 3 deco dives in a day is a total violation of safe diving?

Please don't treat me like a political opponent and twist my words to promote your agenda. That's not what I posted. I wrote that it was not a good idea and I stand by that. In fact, I limit my deco to one a day and no more than two or three days in a row max. You want to be a special snowflake and feel that you can abuse your body with impunity? Go ahead. I don't feel compelled to do so. I'm proud of the fact that I've been diving since 1969 with no DCS, ear barotrauma or any other debilitating injury caused by diving. Safe diving is no accident.

 

[cerich]

Sotis experienced some kind of physiological event which was probably hypercapnic in nature. Then, while the crew was tending to him, an otherwise fine Stewart removed his loop without shutting off the DSV. The unit flooded and pulled Stewart under quickly. His relative inexperience with rebreathers made it impossible for him to resolve the issue, so he drowned on the way down. A simple mistake probably cost him his life. I adhere to this because it fits the facts and is the simplest explanation of the events.

I don't agree with ya,hypoxia is my bet