DIR- GUE Finding teammates after failing fundamentals

[Wibble]

Fundies... A hard course where you really learn how much you need to learn to be a competent diver.

It's a course where this is the first time many divers come across really sorted people in the water. People often learn in pile-em-high-sell-em-cheap resort "do your PADI" courses, then dive with divers who's aspiration is pure "recreational" diving. Putting it bluntly, quality dive skills aren't a high priority in that community.

After being exposed to high standards for the first time, the realisation dawns on how hard this is and how much it takes to be "good" in the water. The despair phase as core skills (buoyancy, trim, finning) take time to develop.

Nobody ever fails Fundies. Sure, you won't get a tick-it, but who cares about cards. It's the skills that count. Everyone comes away from Fundies armed with the knowledge of what good looks like. It's then up to the student to do something about developing those skill with endless practice and trying to find "good" divers to dive with who actually care about their skills.

Fundies is a means to an end. It shows you the way, but you have to put the hard work in to develop your skills to that standard. Once you've done that, the world is your lobster; diving is so much easier and safer.

The other benefit of Fundies is learning whether or not you actually want to continue down the GUE path. Many people choose to walk away from that style of diving. There's plenty of other non-GUE diving to be done which still requires excellent core skills.

 

[ginti]

This is exactly right, this was my first impression reading the OP. Frequently, the instructor is the one that "failed" the student not the student failing the course. I would never tell a student who is still trying to learn that they "failed" and should stop the course. I'd work with them to the end of the course and even add time and extra effort to help them if they are genuinely wanting to learn.

Agree, 100%. However, the way the OP described the situation (increased breath, psychological workload, etc.) I feel that the instructor did not fail the OP due to a lack of skills but due to the risk of panicking - this would make the OP unsafe to dive(@overthinking_diver - sorry if I do not use pronouns, it is just not clear to me if you are a man/woman or non-binary).

Now, if this was the case, it is tough to say whether "fail" or "provisional" was the right choice without knowing more. Maybe the instructor was only scared to let the OP do the rescue exercise (in that exercise, especially with beginner divers, annoying things like losing the regulators or similar sometimes happen). In this case, "fail" make sense.

But I do not know, and in all other cases I can think of now - I agree with you.

This thread is a perfect example about weight distribution not being taught as an essential aspect for proper diving.

Divers take courses in obvious foot heavy configurations and nobody corrects the weight distribution.

One can tighten their butt muscles all they want to compensate for the center of mass not lining up with the center of buoyancy. Good luck with that.

Honestly, I am surprised that the diver was allowed to continue the course with jet fins with that thermal protection. However, see my post above - it might have nothing to do with the failure. Also, the fact that the OP had these fins does not mean there was no explanation. Maybe the explanation was clear, but there were no other fins available - @overthinking_diver maybe can say something about it.

I can't blame the instructor. He did a great job and helped me improve a lot. I'm pretty sure he thought I was unsafe to dive for the last dive on the last day in my current state. At the end of the day, It's a judgement call. I don't think GUE has an official SOP on when someone should be removed from a class. But they like their SOPs so who knows

They are actually publicly available; yes, if the instructor decides you are a risk for you and other participants, he can pull you out of the class at any time. From the SOP, page 8:

The way you described the course, you were probably a grade 2 in most skills, but with a kind of overthinking attitude that may lead to panic. No shame in being a 2 (or even a 1); many people were at the beginning - me, for instance.

I don't know, I can only speculate. I was basically told "you're done, you failed" with a very friendly, sympathetic tone.

This is not really good; the instructor should give you feedback and explain why you failed so that you can continue your diving path safely. I am sure he will provide you with more feedback if you ask

Also that you could not do the last dives of a course were you paid for. Fundies is not a tech course were you have to deal with unsafety if people are not good enough. It is a shallow entry level course.

Usually, I would agree with you, but there are extreme cases, see above.

Further, I don't think you won't find buddies to practise with. Also if you just do a fundive, you can practise of course. I had students in my courses with a fail on fundies and with a tech rating and a fail does not say they will not improve later. Also I have failed a student with a tech rating on an normoxic course. We agreed together to quit. It was not a direct fail, but the student did not want to practise. He just wanted to dive for fun. So the balance with 2 stages never came.

I can tell you from personal experience that finding buddies can and often is quite complicated; it really depends on where you live.

 

[rddvet]

Why is that? What does she offer or do that is different and so positive about her? Aren't all GUE instructors supposed to be doing the same thing?

Note: I am genuinley interested to know, not arguing with you at all.

She’s an excellent instructor and has an excellent attitude and you can tell her and her co-instructor really care about their students getting something out of the course. Her classes are very long and grueling compared to some others. That could be a good or bad thing for some people because the days can be very long.
While all gue instructors are doing the same thing, not all gue instructors are the same. They’re people with differing personalities. There are some gue instructors I have no interest in taking a class with. They are great instructors but their personality and style doesn’t mesh well with mine.

 

[rddvet]

They do the same thing, but not the same way. I’ve done courses with three instructors and spent a morning with another working on an issue. They are all good and do similar things, but personality matters.

Meredith put more emphasis on the underwater video, which is extremely good at showing a student what they are actually doing. Which, at fundies level, may have very little correlation with what they think they are doing. I know I was pretty surprised to see all the crazy I was doing. And I get the feeling that this wasn’t emphasized enough to the OP.

Don’t know, I wasn’t there.

Crazy how you feel great but then look at the video and realize you look like trash. I’ve got a love hate relationship with video review.

 

[divad]

You are clearly not made of the right material and should prostrate yourself to a class of PADI OW divers and beg their acceptance*.





*Joke. Seriously though, if someone didn't want to dive with you because of this, do you really want to go diving with them?

Oh man I just realized that the airspaces that divers have to manage are not just their lungs, BCD/wing, dry suits if they are wearing one, loop if they are diving a rebreather, but also their colon!

It's little tidbits of information like this that makes scubaboard so valuable!

Peeeyou....

 

[Aura]

Would you dive with me and show me how to you dive in your part of the world if I have never been trained to diver there? Are you the patient type? Would you do that in your "joy dives"?

I don't see why not. I don't mind diving with people fresh out of an OW course. Helping others improve makes me a better diver too.

 

[JoeTPhilly]

There aren't many posts in NEUE, but it's a very active cross-border community in the 1000 islands area.

Dives tend to get organized through FB group chats between the members rather than on the page.

It's Bob Sherwood's group and there are a lot more FB posts through his shop All About Scuba (GUE/NAUI) in Alexandria Bay, NY. They dive all through the year.

For the Memorial Day weekend, there's a multi-agency (GUE/NAUI/DAN) workshop and get-together. It's a little expensive, but I find it to be so worth it with the coaching that we all get from top-notch instructors.

Some of us are driving down and doing 2 dives on Friday afternoon on Andrew's boat (Blue Foot Diving/All About SCUBA). I believe there's still space.

There will be Bob, Heison Chak, Graham Blackmore from the UK, Jamie Lichner, and so on running workshops Saturday and Sunday.

Spring 2023 Workshop

Thanks for the info. It is quite a distance from me but maybe in the future I will make a trip there.

 

[overthinking_diver]

For the Memorial Day weekend, there's a multi-agency (GUE/NAUI/DAN) workshop and get-together. It's a little expensive, but I find it to be so worth it with the coaching that we all get from top-notch instructors.

This is really, really tempting! Is it too cold for a wetsuit?

 

[PR_SMITH]

This is really, really tempting! Is it too cold for a wetsuit?

Probably too cold for a wetsuit. Ask Bob Sherwood if he has any rental drysuits. BTW, Bob and Heison are 2 of the best instructors you will ever meet.

 

[Ayisha]

This is really, really tempting! Is it too cold for a wetsuit?

It depends on your individual tolerance. The water is normally between 50 F (10 C) - 55 F/15 C this early in the season. In August, it can reach 74 F/23 C.

It can also depend on how warm it is that weekend. If it's cool or rainy, you might feel it more when you come out of the water than if it's a hot sunny day.

There will be other wetsuit divers there. If you do go, you would need a 2-piece 7mm wetsuit minimum, hood or hooded vest, thick gloves, preferably neoprene socks, and boots/open fins. Warm clothes, hat and mitts just in case.

Having said that, of course the temp is more suited to a drysuit, but it really depends on your own tolerance.

They usually have one in October, but I find that one colder than the May get-together.