First open water dive: ran out of air. WTH?

[glassbottom]

He told me the gauge was hard to read because the cover had clouded up. I told him I couldn't see it at all due to wearing my contacts, plus the cloudy plastic cover. He read it, said I was fine.

We had swam by a long cement culvert type cylinder/tube which we would have swum through had it not been blocked. Sitting here tonight, I wonder what would have happened had I run out inside that longish, dark tube?

Not to pile on too much of what others have said.


1. SPG's can blow out (just had one of mine do this. They fill with moisture/condensation. They still work, but the internals will rust and the indicator will begin to stick. once you blow one out, or there is water or condensation, you need to replace it ASAP.


2. A swimthrough is an overhead, not something one is trained for in OW. I agree with you but for nothing else I would report the DI for this as well if he said as much. God only knows how much silt was in there and you could have gotten into a dark, 0 vis situation very easily. Not safe.

finally, your training worked and you handled it like a champ. This was one part of training I wish was better for me. We simulated OOA etc but it was always expected. I like to think I would react the same if it were unexpected but who knows. I don't have the best tidal volume, this much I know ( I was a smoker for a while when I was young and dumb)

 

[Finding Thomas Paine]

I met with my Instructor face to face today to discuss the incident. He said he did not realize (and that I did not tell him) that I was not going to be able to see the gauge regardless, due to my contacts/vision. He had told me the scratches on the gauge would not be as much an issue under water and he thought, until today, I had been monitoring my gauge. I thought I had made it clear on land that I could not read the gauge and would not be able to, period, but I will assume I was not clear about this. One thing I will note is that he did not follow up with me about what had happened at any time until I went in to see him. Today, he was very willing to talk and was not defensive at all. He said it was a full tank, that it has happened that students get low before that class ends and that they have to surface. But that running completely out was very rare - or words to that effect. He said had he known I couldn't see a thing and never even attempted to monitor my gas, he would have done it for me.

He told me not to over-analyze the situation. That I reacted well. That we were in 40 feet of water the deepest. This might sound strange but I had competing thoughts while we met. One, is that I think he is way too loose. I am a type-A guy and I read a lot about the ideal. The competing feeling was that he made me feel confidence in him at the same time, if that makes any sense. Several people I know vouch for his safety practices etc. And his demeanor was very calm and confident, not arrogant or defensive at all. I suppose after teaching for 30 years, he has seen it all.

Here is the other piece. I asked about the culvert. He did plan to have us swim through it, but-for it being closed off. A few more facts: It is 8-10 feet long and it was angled distinctly upwards. He said it was not level and was not "one way in, one way out" and so is appropriate for OW classes. The rest of the class went through it last week when I missed. He said he wanted to see our how we responded to our impending change in buoyancy once we exited and the air in our BCs had expanded. I asked why he would not have let me know more about this pre-dive, he smiled and said "I would not have been able to see how you responded in the moment, had I done that." I asked what would have happened had I run out of air inside the tube and panicked. He said "Adam, you would have done fine. And I was right there. Had you had the least issue, I would have pulled your @ss right out of there."

He wants me to use a different gauge from now on with bigger numbers etc. And I will either ditch the contacts so I can read up close - or work out a solution to my vision problem another way, such as a prescriptive mask etc.

My gut is that he has been doing so long, that he is confident and sincerely never felt I was in any danger. I bet many here will not agree with much of this. I am leaning toward continuing with him but I don't know for sure.....I will say this, I am prone to over-analyzing things to a fault. I cross-examine people for a living and hate to bring that approach to the rest of my life......

 

[dmaziuk]

My gut is that he has been doing so long (he is probably 50, in biz 25 + yrs), that he is confident and sincerely never felt I was in any danger. I bet many here will not agree with much of this. I am leaning toward continuing with him but I don't know for sure.....I will say this, I am prone to over-analyzing things to a fault. I cross-examine people for a living and hate to bring that approach to the rest of my life......

I suspect he genuinely didn't realize you can't see whether the needle is in the green, yellow, or red. Do not attribute it to malice...

 

[uncfnp]

Do you have problems with near vision with your contacts when out of the water?

 

[phoenix31tt]

I didn't realise you woudn't be able to see the gauge underwater either... which is why several people asked if you didn't check the gauge...
It's still weird that he never asked you for pressure at any point during the dive as being asked pressure and responding to it is supposed to be part of the training if i understand correctly...

he probably just assumed that you would make the full diver on that tank... either way... i don't see this as any "reportable" offence... just a matter of misunderstanding and miscommunication...

...cant make a judgement on the culvert thing without seeing it though...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Let me say this clearly. You are not over analyzing the situation. You were given defective gear. You're air supply was not properly monitored. Knowing that people get low on air during this type of class is exactly why you do not allow it. You do the shallow or "confined water" portion with one tank. Then you switch tanks for the open water portion. That he has been lucky and getting away with this does not make it right.

The remark about the culvert is even more frightening. Seriously. I don't care if it's standing at a 70 degree angle. The standards are very clear on this. If you cannot ascend straight up it's an overhead. Especially in an OW class setting. This:

"Here is the other piece. I asked about the culvert. He did plan to have us swim through it, but-for it being closed off. A few more facts: It is 8-10 feet long and it was angled distinctly upwards. He said it was not level and was not "one way in, one way out" and so is appropriate for OW classes. The rest of the class went through it last week when I missed. He said he wanted to see our how we responded to our impending change in buoyancy once we exited and the air in our BCs had expanded. I asked why he would not have let me know more about this pre-dive, he smiled and said "I would not have been able to see how you responded in the moment, had I done that." I asked what would have happened had I run out of air inside the tube and panicked. He said "Adam, you would have done fine. And I was right there. Had you had the least issue, I would have pulled your @ss right out of there."

Is complete horse crap. I'm guessing by your own words that you are a lawyer? How would you treat a witness when asked why a person died said "the instructor did not pull him out of the tube because he was busy helping another student that came out first and was having buoyancy problems?"

All it would have taken is for him to be distracted for a second or two. In that second you could have spit the reg out because your fin got caught and swallowed a couple lung fulls of water. Think about it. It's an 8 -10 ft tube. You are just entering and your tank gets hung up on the lip. You start to get upset and possibly panic. He's on the other end of that tube. Is he Mr. Fantastic from the fantastic four that his arms are going to magically stretch and grab you?

You don't need to go into a tube to see someone's reaction to a change in buoyancy! You get on the ascent line with a newer diver and ask them to go up a couple feet while you are looking them in the eye. You can be horizontal or vertical. Also if he was with the second student at some point he no longer has direct access to both of you. What happens when you both have an issue? Only one is in the tube. The other is not. Who gets saved?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

He said "Adam, you would have done fine. And I was right there. Had you had the least issue, I would have pulled your @ss right out of there."

SMMFH. You are in the middle of the tube, run out of air, likely panic. He is where? In front? Behind? How does he know you are out of air? Does he have eyes in the heels of his fins? It doesn't take long for a person to drown. I hope you report this clown. This is an open water class. You are to be trained to deal with basic problems, not these sort of shenanigans.

My gut is that he has been doing so long, that he is confident and sincerely never felt I was in any danger. I bet many here will not agree with much of this. I am leaning toward continuing with him but I don't know for sure.....I will say this, I am prone to over-analyzing things to a fault. I cross-examine people for a living and hate to bring that approach to the rest of my life......

Cross examining people isn't a bad thing when you are being trained in life (your life) saving skills.

Hence my comment earlier about beware of the normalization of deviance. He's been a cowboy so long, he dismisses the possibility of anything wrong. That's how people often get killed.

Which agency? I'm a PADI dive master, my OWSI training starts Saturday, and this is clearly a violation of the teaching standards that PADI has set for confined water dive 1.

 

[Finding Thomas Paine]

Do you have problems with near vision with your contacts when out of the water?

Yes. I usually don't even wear them. I normally wear glasses for driving, watching TV or anything at any distance. Then take them off to read. Can't read anything small with glasses or contacts on.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am first of all surprised you can't see gauges with your contacts. I used to wear contacts with diving before LASIK surgery, and I could see fine. IN fact, it should be easier to see under water because of the magnification effect. If you could not see under water, then that surface was really bad.

The rule against open water environments for OW training dives is absolute. Once you are certified, you can do what you want on dives, although there are recommendations. But instructors are firmly required to follow standards like that on any training dive.

 

[uncfnp]

Yes. I usually don't even wear them. I normally wear glasses for driving, watching TV or anything at any distance. Then take them off to read. Can't read anything small with glasses or contacts on.

Consider monovision contacts. One contact in dominate eye for distance. The other contact corrects for near vision.