First OW class, lots of gear questions!

[npole]

Do you/have you done that kind of diving before? What are you basing your opinions on that it performs better than a normal regulator?

Of course, they aren't paying me to use one regulator or another. The loop is better in 90% of the circumstances I experienced, the 10% is left out because of the reduced vertical down mobility of your head (the hose can touch your chest if you tilt your head down much), but it's a rare occurrence, the freely left/right/up mobility is incomparable, and when using an appropriate hose length it will not hang far apart from your body, it will stay in place (i'm using a miflex hose).
However I suggested it to the guy who wanted a mono with a under arm setup by using a 90° joint.. if you'e using that setup, the Loop will be perfect for you without adding any joint resulting in having a better head mobility.

 

[dmaziuk]

But thinking that our biggest and strongest muscles are involved in a straight kicking motion, it makes sense why humans seem to naturally prefer a flutter kick without any other training. I spent an hour designing what I would consider an ideal fin for flutter kicking, and basically designed the Scubapro Seawing Nova

Then you need to think again. So you design this: https://www.amazon.com/FINIS-1-35-012-04-FOIL-Monofins-S/dp/B004O6ED22/

 

[Aloha Joe]

Then you need to think again. So you design this: https://www.amazon.com/FINIS-1-35-012-04-FOIL-Monofins-S/dp/B004O6ED22/

Been there, done that! My first thought was something like a monofin, but then I wanted to see if I could make something work for a flutter kick, since that seems to come more natural to people. Also, if you look closely at the swimmer's feet with that monofin, you'll see he's got tremendous ankle flexibility that doesn't come naturally to most folks. If you take your average Joe (that's not me) and slap that monofin on him, the angle of the fin with respect to desired direction of motion will be whacked.

 

[dmaziuk]

Yes, and that's part of the issue: it's not the fin that does the kicking.

The other part is that kicking isn't what we're normally there for. Folks who plan on long underwater swim take a scooter. I.e. a fin that's very good at flutter kick is not necessarily what you want on a dive.

 

[Couv]

I think I have a 'standard' reg configuration right now - no long hose. The primary is really too short to be donating, and the secondary (a little longer) is too long to route to my necklace w/o looping it somewhere.

Today the instructor asked me to donate my secondary - I think mostly because the secondary hose is longer (primary is really too short for comfortable donating). I think I like the primary donate method better, fwiw.

I think a lot of my issue is that my corregated inflator hose is too long, the inflator supply hose is even too long for it, and my SPG hose is too long. Combine that with a swivelling first stage turret that sits pretty high behind me, and I've got a big rats nest on my left side. So when I doff/don my rig it can get messy. Clipping my octo to my rig will definitely help, and I'll clean everything up when I choose a method and place for my snorkel. Although I don't need to wait to get a shorter corregated hose...

BTW my 'long hose' isn't very long, and it's just routed under my right arm and goes to my necklace. So the hose ends up out in front of me sometimes.....

As I'm familiar with your first stage, have a Freedom Plate, and doughnut wing like you, can I suggest you try this setup? Your primary second stage hose goes into the end port. The necklaced regulator hose will go into a side port. The BC inflator hose plugs in just opposite. Your primary second stage hose will route under your right arm. If you're using a 5 or 7 foot hose research the routing. If you're using a 40" inch hose, put an elbow adapter Swivels and Elbows | Dive Gear Express® on the second stage. (I prefer the 70 deg over the 90 degree)

Regulator hoses come in a variety of lengths, so mount your regulator, BP/W up to a tank and measure the length of hose you'll need to connect to your power inflator. Find a lp hose in the length you need. Use a LP hose to BC adapter like this DGX Adapter: Turns LP Reg Hose into BC Inflator Hose and your inflator will be sorted.

 

[tbone1004]

@couv mine is somewhat similar, but I have octo coming out the end, cant the first stage over a bit more and have both the primary and inflator coming out the bottom. Looks/feels a bit more like doubles that way, but it routes really nice. Unfortunately with a 36" hose, the primary will be too short to do that for most people to comfortably look left, even with an elbow

 

[Aloha Joe]

I can't believe I forgot to ask this one!

On Saturday I used my rig with no extra weight. I had no problems controlling it or floating on my back at the surface. On Sunday we needed to practice with ditchable weight, so I had 2lbs at or just behind either hip. I was definitely more wobbly underwater (in positions other than horizontal) and it wasn't as easy to get up on my wing at the surface.

Next weekend I'll be in the ocean w/ 7mm wetsuit, and my instructor says 'up to 20lbs' of ballast - with as much as 16lbs ditchable.

Where's the best place to add ditchable weight? I have 4 weight pockets to use - do I just put them as far back on my waist strap as possible? How does BC buoyancy affect my 'center of lift'? And I assume I should put the non-ditchable weight as high as possible?

 

[Saniflush]

I think you are going to find that everyone has a different preference and none of them are really wrong as long as you have enough weight to get you positively buoyant in an area that allows you to ditch it.
My bcd has weight pockets that are ditch-able and trim pockets in the back that are not. Because of this I make sure that at least half (and usually a little more than half) are in my ditch-able pockets with the remainder split between the trim pockets.

 

[tbone1004]

@Aloha Joe the wobbly feeling is because you had air in the wing as you were overweighted. not really surprising if you were in a bathing suit

I don't believe in ditchable weight, I think it's ridiculous, and prefer to dive a balanced rig whenever possible. Your instructors call of how much total ballast you'll need is about right, however you won't be able to have that much ditchable.
If you have plastic cam bands, you should have somewhere around 8lbs of it in the plate/harness/first stage
If you have metal cam bands, it will be around 10lbs inherent to the rig.

If you have a luggage scale, you can hook it on, set the rig in the water, note the weight, and deduct the mass of gas in the tank. If using an AL80, it's about 6lbs.
From there, you need to do a proper weight check which your instructor should walk you through, and based on my experience of diving a 7mm with SS plate and an AL80, you'll probably end up adding 6-10lbs on the rig. I'd just do this with a run of the mill weight belt. Easiest way for now until you stabilize with everything, but even then I find weight belts much easier than weight pouches.

 

[Aloha Joe]

Thanks - I guess I really was just asking where the best place to put ditchable weight is, regardless of how much I need. But being over-weighted makes perfect sense! I had more weight to work against, but no extra leverage in open water to push back. The wobbly happened mostly I was vertical; I was OK swimming.

I agree about a balanced rig and have a weight belt, but I didn't get it in time to practice with it in class. The instructor wants me to use the same config I had in the pool and I find no fault with that (for first time in the ocean).

So it sounds like I should go easy w/ non-ditchble (ie, not use any) since I might only need ~10lbs ballast and she wants that much ditchable. Then it will be no problem to do weight checks and add/subtract weight as necessary