Fishermen

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Carl P

Registered
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
Messages
30
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0
Location
Tokyo
# of dives
200 - 499
I suspect this one will run and run, so I light the touch paper and stand back....

Anyone have any experience that they would like to share in dealing with fishermen
in Izu (or elswhere in Japan)? This comes after a minor turf war with them when they caught us diving in their ocean without their permission. Various approaches occur to me, but I would be interested in other people's experiences. Does asking nicely work? Does sake work? Do cash gifts to the co-op work? Do heated discussions work (probably not)? Do legal avenues work (again probably not). Also, does anyone have any experience of how far they are willing to go to protect their fish from scuba divers?
 
Carl P:
Anyone have any experience that they would like to share in dealing with fishermen in Izu (or elswhere in Japan)? This comes after a minor turf war with them when they caught us diving in their ocean without their permission.

hi Carl P,

i'm another PADI dive master working in japan. as i am half japanese and speak japanese as fluent as most native japanese, i have got many occasions on which i interacted with local fishermen with respect to diving.

in general, they are good guys, meaning that they behave in a reasonably democratic manner. once it comes to their right to monopolize their ocean, however, they become paranoiac. it is their belief that, at least in Japan, their right to secure their fishing water has been granted by the government all through history. as you see, this is quite different from the idea of fishermen in the US or Canada.

thus, it is wise to make friends with them, if you want to ask for their permission. when you do that, it is of the utmost importance that you make them understand that divers will not hunt their property, i.e. fish. if you invest a few days of drinks and karaoke afterwards, you will have a fair chance of getting their agreement.

good luck!

ken chung ar
 
Thanks for those suggestions ken chung ar. Any ideas how you find the person who Iu can negotiate with? How structured are the co-ops? If I get the OK from one fisherman, will his mates be aware of the agreement? Is there usually a head fisheman?
:huh:
C.
 
hi carl p,

the answer to your question is yes. in a fisherman union, the head is called GYOROUCHOU. if you talk directly to this man and he says OK, you can rely on what he says. however, if you get your OK from a regular member of the union, this GYOROUCHOU may still say no.

as i wrote before, the union is pretty democratic, and there is no definite hierarchy. to save your time and energy, you should go straight to the head fisherman.

ken chung ar
 
Thanks k-c-a. Will go find a gyorouchou. C.
 
Do you mean to say that the waters surrounding Nippon are not free to be dived?

That sounds a bit draconian!

Is this a legal issue or a cultural heritage belief?

the Kraken
 
Kraken, no the waters around Japan are not entirely free to be dived.

The issue is most visible in the diving areas close to Tokyo, but is also seen in other areas to some extent.

It is a cultural, not a legal issue. That said, the two are not always so clearly distinguishable in Japan. The diving thought-leaders strongly believe that there is no legal foundation for the fishermen's argument, however the fishermen strongly believe that the law is on their side. There are many stories floating around, where the local police have sided with the fishermen in disputes with divers. As divers, this is hard to accept, but the fishermen are local comunity members trying to earn a living. They can definately enforce their control over the sea, as they own the boats, can easily disrupt diving operations, and have local support if they need it.

The fishermen believe that the divers' reason to dive is to take fish, particularly shellfish, lobsters and the like. I understand that the fishermen's co-ops do have government granted fishing rights, so they want to protect those rights. Although the number of divers who do take lobsters, shellfish etc is a small minority, the Japanese do love seafood, and there are a lot of divers based in greater Tokyo. So although it is hard to see the fishermen as conservationists, I could be persuaded to consider the argument that if diving was not controlled in some way in Japan, that it could result in an unusual form of over-fishing / environmental damage.

There is also a commercial angle here that muddies the water somewhat. In many cases, dive shops pay an ocean useage fee or boat fee to the fishermen or the co-ops, so sinics might suggest that it is less clear what the fishermen are protecting.

There is one sketchy story floating around of a dive shop that challenged the system through the courts and won, but rumor has it that the dive shop in question was run by an ex-policeman.

The diving industry seems to have a mixed attidude to the issue. On the one hand it does make dive businesses less flexible and more costly. On the other hand, it helps control competion and makes it hard for divers to do their own thing without spending money with the dive shops. I have not heard any view on this rom PADI or other such organizations. That would be an interesting side to hear from.......

Although this might sound defeatist, it is not a battle that can be won without changing attitudes. So my approach is to do what it takes to live in peace & harmony with the local comunity, including the fishermen. Taking a more aggressive stance is likely to drive wedges between the divers and the fishermen and will probably have the opposite effect of that which is desired.

Attached is an excerpt from a work-in-progress guide book that I have been working on for the last few years:

C.
 
Carl,
Thank you for a excellent response.
As the British would say, "Sounds like a rather sticky wicket."

the Kraken
 
Carl P:
There is one sketchy story floating around of a dive shop that challenged the system through the courts and won, but rumor has it that the dive shop in question was run by an ex-policeman.

The owner used to be a police diver, but not a policeman. He has a steady clientele of ex-cops and current policemen.

Matt
 
Mar Scuba:
The owner used to be a police diver, but not a policeman. He has a steady clientele of ex-cops and current policemen.

hey mar scuba,

it's good to hear from yah! we haven't seen each other for ages.

i have no idea about the incident you mentioned. where did it take place? who was the police diver and diveshop owner? let me hear more about it.

ken chung ar
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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