Future of DiveShops?

[dmoore19]

Why would an instructor or anybody professional or employed in the diving industry find someone whose time and money as a vacation diver is somehow less important than that of a vacation diver? Where I live, the people I know that dive are either pro or are vacation divers. Seems stupid to ignore or downplay the money vacation divers spend.

 

[RJP]

They received the valet personal attention they wanted and did not once blink at the price.

Attended Dave Ochs' (NAUI C-o-B) presentation today on profitable dive training. He charges $1,250 per student for an OW course. Sure, Palm Beach county has a pretty large group of people with a few bucks... but the majority of his clients don't have diamonds on the soles of their shoes. The reason that he can get $1,250 per person for an OW class is that he has POSITIONED his class costing $1250 as BEING WORTH $1,250. He seems to be doing pretty well.

 

[ktomlinson]

Why would an instructor or anybody professional or employed in the diving industry find someone whose time and money as a vacation diver is somehow less important than that of a vacation diver? Where I live, the people I know that dive are either pro or are vacation divers. Seems stupid to ignore or downplay the money vacation divers spend.

I never said vacation divers were less important, I said I thought it would be better for the industry to target a different group. I think that for the industry as a whole ( manufacturers, LDS, agencies) that attracting people who will dive more than once a year or so seems better to me. The PADI video, if it does attract people, attracts them with unrealistic expectations. I'd rather see people diving in various locales domestically. Something people can think of as a weekend activity rather than a annual vacation activity.

Btw, where do you live?

 

[dmoore19]

I live in the Denver Metro Area.

The diving around here is cold and dark. It isn't how I want to spend my money. CO is a bit different than most states when it comes to the number of people who dive, nothing that hasn't already been said. While your comment may not have been intended to downplay the the Vacation Divers importance it is one that is often voiced here on Scubaboard. If the industry wants more "active divers" and wants to target for that group that is fine. I manage to go on 2 trips a year, I have for the last 5 years. I spend my vacation days and my disposable income on scuba trips because I choose not to dive in cold dark water. Everyone I know that dives and is not a pro does the same thing. Spending 15K-20K/year on these trips (for 2 people) is a considerable amount of money IMO. If the industry wants to choose to cater to the "active diver" that buys $7 fills 5-10 times a year is the demographic you chose to target then so be it.

Either the industry is inclusive or it isn't. If it isn't then it should be prepared for a decline in a demographic that currently supports the industry. From my vantage point it is a substantial piece of the pie.

I never said vacation divers were less important, I said I thought it would be better for the industry to target a different group. I think that for the industry as a whole ( manufacturers, LDS, agencies) that attracting people who will dive more than once a year or so seems better to me. The PADI video, if it does attract people, attracts them with unrealistic expectations. I'd rather see people diving in various locales domestically. Something people can think of as a weekend activity rather than a annual vacation activity.

Btw, where do you live?

 

[ktomlinson]

I've read that 80% of people live within 70 miles of the coast. Usually, marketing has a budget, and because of this I usually try to first target the group that I expect to have the best ROI. Maybe I'm wrong about which type of diver produces more business, a vacation diver or a local diver. Keep in mind they aren't mutually exclusive. I'm sure there are people who dive locally in Colorado. They probably bought a dry suit (score one for a manufacturer). The 15-20 you spend a year on dive vacations is probably mostly spent on airfare and accommodations. I take a couple of fly somewhere and dive vacations a year too, but between them I dive locally (within 200 miles). I spend money in a LDS about once a month on average and mail order gear/parts about ever two-three months. If I was looking for a customer to support the diving industry, I'd look for divers like me.

 

[oly5050user]

And it must be in a location where expensive people live and like to be.
In my town (a little cow town) our LDS was owned by the same guy who also owned an LDS down in Marin County ($$$$). The store in Santa Rosa and the Marin County store had about the same volume of customers but the Marin Co. store did twice the actual dollars in sales.

Location location location...we are in the middle of the most affluent area of Westchester.. Within a very short drive , 5 to 15 minutes, we have Bronxville, Scarsdale, Larchmont, and less than 25 minutes Greenwich CT, ..midtown NYC is 30 minutes. We even plan now to arrange to our students who take the Metro North train from NYC transportation from the train station while they take classes here. From Penn station to Scarsdale its a short train ride, we plan on having a taxi service available to pick them up. We have been getting quite a few from NYC (Manhattan,Brooklyn, even Staten Island) come to us due to our ability to offer a schedule that fits their needs. Any day, any time, due to the fact we have our pool right here in the facility and thereby have no scheduling issues for it. We offer standard weekend schedule and for those that require different schedule or need utmost privacy/ discretion we can work out a private schedule that they need that no other facility in the NYC metro area can.

 

[mjrob]

Oly5050, you are brilliant. Congrats on your success!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Just because somebody lives by the ocean doesn't always mean there is great diving like what people think of when they hear "vacation diving".
Here in Norcal the water is cold and most of the time murky. There are sharks (so they tell me, I've never seen one) and the weather/ocean conditions can change rapidly. There are swells and waves, rocks, kelp, hazards, it's not for the weak or faint of heart. So when I hear "local diving", this is what comes to mind in my world. Even though Northern California is somewhat weathy depending on the specific community, that doesn't mean that all the certified divers in our area dive locally. In fact most probably don't. The local diving around here isn't for everybody. The ones that do dive locally tend to be the ones that are more blue collar in nature, the adventurous ones, hunters, ab divers, freedivers, younger surfer types. And there are a few attorneys and doctors I'm sure too, but by and large these people don't have a lot of disposable income but diving to them is a way of life and they get out there any chance they get on a shoe string.
So to think that our LDS's will be supported by local divers exclusively is not reality. The local divers here are the ones who bitch about the higher costs of everything in the LDS and tend to be much more self sufficient. It takes the wealthy person to come in and spend the money on first class valet service because: A) They can, and B) Don't have then time to get online, and besides they don't know where to go or what to buy. That's what they pay the dive shop and the staff to do, to set them fully up and then they pay the bill. Time and convenience to these people is way more important than saving a few coins of pocket change searching for hours online looking to save a few hundred bucks. Then of course the whole point of them coming in and getting set up is so they can jetset to somewhere warm and have a wonderful scuba vacation. They look to the dive shop to provide this information as well and sell them a trip.

So the point is, Location close to an ocean doesn't always mean automatic success. I think the future of the LDS is going to have to follow a boutique style model catering to people who want something special and can afford it. Dropping prices and thinking that more people will be attracted is misled, all that's going to do is make it hard to pay the rent and bills. It's not going to increase foot traffic or revenue.

 

[oly5050user]

Oly5050, you are brilliant. Congrats on your success!

We are not brilliant. Just learn from past mistakes and try not to repeat them.
This past year we ran more private classes for 1 or 2 people at a time than standard group schedules. Instructors prefer private as it takes less time,usually easier, pay is better than instructing a group. Instructor actually makes more $$$ with private of 1 or 2 students than teaching a group of 8 !
Standard group class of anywhere from 3 to 8 students costs the student $269.
A private schedule course tuition is $650 for 1 student /$550 each for 2 who opts for standard academics of read the text, view the video, listen to instructor deliver presentation,etc..
For those that complete PADI eLearning tuition is $550 for 1 student, for 2 students its $450 each. Does not include ow training dives. Many of our private customers walk in the door with airline tickets in hand and want to the ow dives on holiday. Most of our private clients purchase their required personal set of gear (mask,snorkel,fins,boots) from us and 3mm wet suit as well. So based on that private clients spend average of $1,200+ for academics/pool/personal gear..OW dives not included.

 

[boulderjohn]

Attended Dave Ochs' (NAUI C-o-B) presentation today on profitable dive training. He charges $1,250 per student for an OW course. Sure, Palm Beach county has a pretty large group of people with a few bucks... but the majority of his clients don't have diamonds on the soles of their shoes. The reason that he can get $1,250 per person for an OW class is that he has POSITIONED his class costing $1250 as BEING WORTH $1,250. He seems to be doing pretty well.

There was a thread on ScubaBoard a number of years ago about a Florida shop that was selling OW courses in that price range. Th name of the shop was not mentioned. I did a search and found one in that price range, and it was in the Pam Beach area. This one was PADI, though. Their web site made a big deal about why they cost more than other shops. They seemed to be doing OK.

In northern Florida, if you go to the Extreme Exposure dive shop, you can select from two different OW courses at two different price points. One is their PADI course, which I understand is what most people select. The other is their GUE course, which covers more ground and costs more. You could have the same instructors teaching each course, and I suspect the courses are the same except for the additional content in the GUE course.

it can be done.