Future of DiveShops?

[Eric Sedletzky]

I see a few contrasting ideas in this thread & others that would get in the way of an effective marketing campaign. In another thread discussing marketing scuba diving aggressively, RJP shared some of the reasoning leading up to the Quaker Oats commercial. They had to identify a target audience. Yes, it would be nice to market to 'everyone,' but it would not be effective to target everyone. Eventually, I think they decided mothers, particularly working mothers, were a good target demographic.

And face it, oatmeal is not an exciting, prestigious product to market. Maybe a few steps up from 'septic tank cleaning services,' a step up from grits, but come on. Can you imagine the marketing guy who got handed this assignment. Oh, gee, let's make oatmeal exciting and the brand a house hold name. Yeah, lucky me...

Turns out a number of these working women not only wanted to provide a nutritious, palatable meal in varied flavors to their kids, fast & easy, but were also susceptible to a subtle message that this method would not only accomplish that but also earned their fathers' approval. But the advertising people had to identify a target demographic, interview a bunch of them, try to get into their unconscious psychology to see what emotionally drives them.

With that in mind, in this thread, some people think that the potential customers are...

1.) Poor from a recession, relatively strained for recreational money, and the gear & exotic trips costs are a barrier to diving, which suffers from older divers dying off unreplaced. If so, our demographic may be adventurous young males & females, probably more males, in coastal areas with shore diving options. Coastal California and parts of Florida, since fresh water diving alone isn't likely to be a big seller. But this demographic tends to be social; you can't even talk to each other underwater. And a surfer has people on the beach watching him ride that wave; a diving is not a spectator sport where most of us can impress people much. This bunch will take OW, AOW, maybe Rescue, and that's about it. They'll get a basic gear setup and after that just buy air fills. Your marketing might target high schools, college campuses, other places where if you get a few young people in, they bring some friends.

2.) Middle class or better, there's still gold in them thar' hills, there are plenty of well-off people to market to, if you can get on their radar & beat out the competition. This demographic includes an older set with more money and free time, who can travel from non-coastal locations, and spend more on gear. If you can convinced them scuba is more rewarding than...bass fishing, deer hunting, Sandals resorts, cruising, road trips to see the Grand Canyon and Mt. Rushmore, hiking in Yellowstone National Park, touring Alaska, bicycle riding, mountain climbing, etc... While these people are less attention seeking regarding a peer group (many are married, have a kid, get role recognition/socialization at work), they do have a spouse (& sometimes kids) to please. How many threads on ScubaBoard do we see asking about trips bringing along a non-diver? Wanting beaches, shopping, a bar scene, nature activities, etc...?

Ironic, since ScubaBoard posters tend to be more diehard divers. And prime scuba locations are often distant from sandy beaches and a bit more rural than prime shopping.

If you want DEMA, the LDS, the industry as a whole, etc..., to market, who's your target? Are we trying to get California surfer dudes to try shore diving? Or are we trying to get the 40 year old middle class family man to take up scuba on Caribbean trips while the wife & kids shop, roast on the beach or play volley ball at Sandals?

Richard.

I guess were trying to get all of the above involved in scuba. The thing is like you said, it's a regional thing and there are cultural differences.
I fairly well to do family in a landlocked state will be doing different scuba than a California surfer interested in shore diving.
IMO (and what do I know) it would be difficult to blanket market to all segments with one style ad.
Here in California, especially up on the North Coast where there are the surfer types, and also the hunter outdoorsman types, usually young males and some females in their 20's or 30's, single, adventurous, that like to do that type of stuff will freedive. In fact freediving up here for abalone is a huge sport amongst a wide variety of people, and they also spearfish. Many in time gravitate towards scuba and this is where a good LDS is critical. If the LDS does a good job they will be able to smoothly transition these people into scuba without breaking them financially and seemingly empty their wallets. This is exactly how I got into scuba. I first started to freedive and the gear was minimal and manageable, it got me in the water. After freediving for a few seasons and frequenting the LDS I would see all the scuba gear regs, bc's etc., I became more and more interested in getting scuba certified and I asked a lot of questions. After justifying the costs, training, etc., of scuba I finally took OW and used mostly rented gear. After diving with rented gear for a while I piece by piece eventually got the whole set. I did this incrementally and all out of pocket. At that time my LDS was a great place. The sales guys there were a great resource and were hands on involved in the local dive scene. There was never any pressure and they understood everybody couldn't just come in and buy a whole set of gear all at once. They worked with people with limited funds by honestly leading them in the right direction and advising the best piece of gear to get next. It was a place that everyone went and met up. They sponsored shop dives for their new OW students and getting into the dive scene and meeting new people seemed automatic and natural.
Unfortunately this all came to an end eventually just because the owner got greedier and crustier. All the cool guys that worked there (that actually dove locally) and could tell you about all the cool places to go quit and moved on. Pretty soon it was just an empty shell of a shop and most of the group that used to hang out stopped going there. Their demise had nothing to do with the recession.
Hopefully this new owner will turn it around and bring it back to it's former glory.

There is a market with the not so rich. In fact I think it's a much bigger market than the rich people. They also are more dedicated, because they are willing to dive locally and shore dive. They are the ones that will dive the most for the longest period of years, their whole life. These are the people that will fill the shoes of the dedicated old timers that dove from the same beaches back in the day.
They love to be out there, there's no other place they'd rather be. They love to hunt and gather, they love to impress their girls with their hunting prowess and their cooking skills with their delicious fish tacos. They love to kick it with their buds with a cold beer around the fire on the beach. I know them, I am one, or was, I'm older now, but I was them and I still see them. I lived it.
For young people with limited funds it needs to be cheap and there needs to be a thrill. Scuba if done right can be this, but the LDS needs to recognize it and fit the right gear and price point to this customer.


The rich yuppies, I don't know, that's not my world. I wouldn't know how to reach them.

 

[MrCultureJammer]

Former EVP of Client Services here, with a question for the Creative Director:

Q: How many Creative Directors does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Two. One to rent the Ferarri for the photo shoot... and one to ask why the account team can't change the lightbulb.

I had a feeling from reading your posts that you might be in the ad world as well. Congrats on making it "over the wall", since you said you were a "former" member of the family.

As far as PADI (and the other training agencies) and their efforts at all of this, sure, they (and any other teaching agency) would want their 2 cents worth of info in it as well. My thoughts were that maybe they could all together come to some agreement to simply "support the sport" in some kind of advertising or marketing collectively. Sure, list all their logos at the bottom, or their websites or whatever, but their collective $ could go for something, since apparently no on else is doing the job to try and bring in new folks. Sure, there would have to be some ground rules, but it's in their best interests, right?

I think step one would be to plant the seed of diving, and point them to a discoverscuba.com (or whatever site) with a zip code locator for their closest shop, etc, along with an overview of what to expect, fee estimate, etc.

And yes, I've seen creative briefs really close to that!

 

[mjrob]

And you are correct...but it's not going to happen. We've been preaching that very same sermon to certifying agencies, our vendors and DEMA for years. None of them are willing to work together or, for that matter, independently to build such a campaign. Even getting co-marketing dollars...with one exception in the lot, is like pulling teeth. Ever see the "Go RVing" television ads? Those are prime examples of the concept. We do our own television ads and, thus far, can't convince anyone to share costs on those to feature their company. We have a loooooooooooonnngg way to go yet.

 

[MrCultureJammer]

Yes...Go RV-ing is a perfect example how folks could work together and come up with something.

If I was a LDS, I would gather like-minded folks together and...demand that DEMA 1) hand over good reliable numbers of the marketplace and then 2) put some marketing in effect.

And you're gonna say "demand"? How do I "demand" something like that?

Well, the www is a wonderful thing. Not sure how many LDS there are in the US, but surely all of them have an email address. Slapping down a large document with a listing of everyone who's on board would shake up the room. It really would be viewed as you guys taking control of your future and livelihood, I think, since DEMA/etc refuse to do so.

 

[boulderjohn]

I do recognize the tenets of micro and macro economics and maybe it won't be as "cheap" as I would like it, but it wouldn't be price gauging that I see today with LDS. When I was buying a few items, I went to my guy and said LP has it for X, I will pay all cash, can you get it close. He said no, I went with LP...as simple as that..

As I said earlier in this thread....

Equipment manufacturers do not sell their equipment to all stores at the same price. There is a good chance that in the particular item you are talking about, he had to pay the manufacturer more for the item at dealer cost than LP was selling it for at full retail price. That is the benefit given to high volume dealers, and it is why low volume dealers cannot compete.

I said this earlier, I recently bought an expensive item that is not in demand locally and is thus not even stocked by any local shops. Because I work for the shop, my local shop was willing to give it to me at their cost, and they included me in the emails in which they were inquiring about the cost. The company was willing to go all the way down to a level almost equal to what most online dealers were selling it for. An online dealer that knows me sold it to me for considerably less, and I know they made a profit.

A high volume dealer like Leisure Pro can make a considerable profit selling items at lower prices than your local dealer pays for them at dealer cost. In that case, how can the local small volume dealer compete in price?

 

[oly5050user]

As I said earlier in this thread....

Equipment manufacturers do not sell their equipment to all stores at the same price. There is a good chance that in the particular item you are talking about, he had to pay the manufacturer more for the item at dealer cost than LP was selling it for at full retail price. That is the benefit given to high volume dealers, and it is why low volume dealers cannot compete.

I said this earlier, I recently bought an expensive item that is not in demand locally and is thus not even stocked by any local shops. Because I work for the shop, my local shop was willing to give it to me at their cost, and they included me in the emails in which they were inquiring about the cost. The company was willing to go all the way down to a level almost equal to what most online dealers were selling it for. An online dealer that knows me sold it to me for considerably less, and I know they made a profit.

A high volume dealer like Leisure Pro can make a considerable profit selling items at lower prices than your local dealer pays for them at dealer cost. In that case, how can the local small volume dealer compete in price?

Many times an online dealer may sell an item that is being discontinued or one that is a earlier version that has been updated. We had a customer request a led light they saw that,listed for significantly less than what we had it for. Well we checked it out and discovered it was an older model that the online dealer had for sale, the old model delivered about half the lumens than the new one. Same name , different lumens, and of course the online dealer did not mention the fact that it was a early model with less power. It truly was a buyer beware example. We explained the difference to the customer and she brought from us.
We price match with no problem at the LDS I am associated with as long as it is the same model and from an authorized dealer. We are not as high volume as Leisure Pro, but do our best so fill customers needs.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

As I said earlier in this thread....

Equipment manufacturers do not sell their equipment to all stores at the same price. There is a good chance that in the particular item you are talking about, he had to pay the manufacturer more for the item at dealer cost than LP was selling it for at full retail price. That is the benefit given to high volume dealers, and it is why low volume dealers cannot compete.

I said this earlier, I recently bought an expensive item that is not in demand locally and is thus not even stocked by any local shops. Because I work for the shop, my local shop was willing to give it to me at their cost, and they included me in the emails in which they were inquiring about the cost. The company was willing to go all the way down to a level almost equal to what most online dealers were selling it for. An online dealer that knows me sold it to me for considerably less, and I know they made a profit.

A high volume dealer like Leisure Pro can make a considerable profit selling items at lower prices than your local dealer pays for them at dealer cost. In that case, how can the local small volume dealer compete in price?

I mentioned this earlier, and I don't understand why the manufacturers have to do this.
The wholesale price should be the wholesale price. Whether they put rules on MSRP is another thing, some do and some don't.
If they don't then fine, let the online dealer shave the price down to the bone. At least the small retail store could do the same if they wanted to knowing that they paid the same wholesale. I'm sure manufacturers have their reasons for volume discounts (to move units) but then to take it out on the small stores, it just doesn't seem right. I have a buddy who opened a shop in AZ. His customer base was mostly snow birds that took trips to Mexico and other places which he sold and sponsored. He was a Scubapro dealer for a while but they pulled his dealership because he didn't sell enough of their merchandise to make them happy. Aqualung had no problem with his volume and were glad to have his account.

Another point, my LDS mentioned that they were at one point interested in getting in some Halcyon gear to see how it would go.
Halcyon wanted an initial order of $5000 which there was no way the shop would do, so that was the end of that.

I lay some of the fault with manufacturers citing these examples. They're only damaging themselves in the long run.

 

[RJP]

I mentioned this earlier, and I don't understand why the manufacturers have to do this.
The wholesale price should be the wholesale price.

Eric- ever notice that a case of beer costs less per bottle than a six-pack? That a gallon of milk is cheaper per ounce than buying a quart? Toilet paper costs less per roll when you buy a 36 roll pack than if you bought a four roll pack.

"Buy more, pay less" isn't exactly a unique concept. I'm certain you take advantage of it yourself on a regular basis. Why should't Shop A pay less per regulator if they buy 100 of them compared to Shop B who only buys a dozen?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Eric- ever notice that a case of beer costs less per bottle than a six-pack? That a gallon of milk is cheaper per ounce than buying a quart? Toilet paper costs less per roll when you buy a 36 roll pack than if you bought a four roll pack.

"Buy more, pay less" isn't exactly a unique concept. I'm certain you take advantage of it yourself on a regular basis. Why should't Shop A pay less per regulator if they buy 100 of them compared to Shop B who only buys a dozen?

Yes, that's very true, but that's high volume consumption vs low volume consumption.
Costco sells cases of beer like crazy, and 7-11 sells 6 packs of beer like crazy even though the price at 7-11 is more. People buy a lot of beer as they buy a lot of toilet paper and other consumable products.
However scuba regulators might be a once or twice in a lifetime buying event.

I understand volume pricing, but like in the case of Createx Corporation to cite an example of reverse thinking, the owner refused to sell in volume at discount because he knew it was killing the small stores. He actually did better by having the product at more physical locations around the world (small retailers) for people to see, feel, test, etc., instead of a few online mega retailers. It caught on quicker and bacame popular quicker because it was in sight in a rack in thousands of small stores for people to buy and try.
The e-retailers did finally carry it at (gulp) MSRP, but they had to because of the popularity of the product. Did they sell product? hell yeah, to the person living way out where there weren't any small retailers. The e-tailers are doing just fine, don't worry about them.

 

[RJP]

The e-tailers are doing just fine, don't worry about them.

I'm not worried about e-tailers. I'm worried about the continued viability of an industry whose participants don't seem to understand and/or want to accept the simplest concepts of business economics.