General Vortex Incident Discussion

[PfcAJ]

Does anyone know who Ben's "OW Sidemount" instructor was/is?

 

[Hetland]

Ok, so it seems like because Nik is a nice guy, with competent yet different scuba techniques, the concept of cave conservation practices and rules of cave diving such as be cave dive trained, have redundancy and so on, don't apply here. Even though it's been agreed that the Piano Room is by definition a cave.

Ben McDaniels didn't seem to think the rules of cave diving or training applied to him either. That's what started this whole thread in the first place.

Exactly! I have to call bull$#17 on everyone, especially dive professionals excusing the behavior. It's one thing to stand mute, but quite another to make excuses for the guy.

Heck, I think the front-tank and front-snorkel are pretty damn cool myself. Is it such a stretch to believe OW students are being influenced by the behavior? Really, you guys can't see that? I wonder now if McDaniel wasn't emboldened to go deeper into that cave because of Nick's shenanigans.

It should be expected, that when someone publicly exceeds their training and experience, that they will be called-out for it. It's happened to me, and in the process I learned important lessons. Once someone's been called out, and they continue with the behavior, ridicule is a perfectly reasonable escalation of the discouragement continuum. It probably won't affect the hard-head taking the risks, but it may dissuade the next guy from walking the same path.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It should be expected, that when someone publicly exceeds their training and experience, that they will be called-out for it. It's happened to me, and in the process I learned important lessons. Once someone's been called out, and they continue with the behavior, ridicule is a perfectly reasonable escalation of the discouragement continuum.

... as a friend of mine once put it ... "Threats and ultimatums are never the best answer. Public humiliation via Photoshop is always better" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

the photoshop humiliations are the best

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

the photoshop humiliations are the best

How do you do that when they post their own videos that need no photoshopping to embarrass most

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Wow, apparently alot of creative editting going on this morning. Censorship at the expense of false safety and foreign relations? LOL Heaven forbid another coldwar.

Does anyone know who Ben's "OW Sidemount" instructor was/is?

Sure, but its as important as his nitrox instructor, or boat diving course instructor is...

 

[PfcAJ]

Orly? I guess you didn't see this pic: Photo: Ben McDaniel pursued his spirit of exploration into a dangerous underwater cave in Florida in August. He didn't return, and his family hopes to find someone who can retrieve his body from the cave. - Memphis, TN | The Commercial Appeal

Check out the valve of the left tank and tell me whats wrong with that.

 

[mike_s]

Does anyone know who Ben's "OW Sidemount" instructor was/is?

Yes but it really doesn't matter who is was as this wasn't an Open Water Incident/discussion and the instruction had nothing to do with caves. So there is no sense pointing any fingers at his OW Sidemount instructor w/o knowing all the details. (not implying you are... but for everyone in general).

He he inquired about diving in caves in tight spots (sidemount restrictions), he was warned against diving in caves and overhead environments without proper training.

but he did it anyway.... so we can't blame his past instructor for Ben doing stuff he was warned that he was not trained for.

sometimes you can't stop people from doing stupid things no matter how many times you tell them.

 

[PfcAJ]

But they don't have to facilitate.

And regardless if he was "warned about cave diving", there is some highly suspect stuff going on in that picture I linked to, above. Makes me wonder about the quality of instruction and why people are protecting the identity of the instructor. If he did nothing wrong, what's to hide?

 

[Docc]

Wow, apparently alot of creative editting going on this morning. Censorship at the expense of false safety and foreign relations? LOL Heaven forbid another coldwar.

My post vanished almost before I posted it. But at least the MOD that deleted it sent me a nice explanation.