General Vortex Incident Discussion

[vshearer]

Eureka! I've got it. The reason nobody found any tanks at the nomount area is he was using Nik's "back-to-back" rig to push in front.

 

[KP3S]

So, I read the first highlighted quote to mean that the Sheriff's Office firmly believes he is in there? Given what you've all been saying about the lack of evidence such as scratches etc., (in your opinions) do they have any particular evidence supporting that belief or is it more of a supposition and/or best guess?

I have read all the post about this incident. Did my own research on all the news articles I could find. And my only conclusion for the S.O. to make that statement is to make somebody let the guard down and get pick up somewhere else, like somebody faking his own death. For reasons unknown to me without more evidence to the contrary, I believe he is not there and is in hiding until things cool down. IMHO.

 

[diverdoug1]

If he is still alive, how much you wanna' bet that he is following this thread?

 

[Ruoska]

If he is still alive, how much you wanna' bet that he is following this thread?

That's what I've been thinking about too... There is this new member, who's only posted in this thread and who's location is "somewhere deep"...



Makes you wonder...

 

[Dive-aholic]

In a pre-op assessment, we do not consider a patient a non-smoker until they have been tobacco free for at least 10 years. There is at least one poster in this thread who classifies themselves as a DIR diver, who says smokers are not DIR, and has smoked a cigar (by their own admission on this board) within this time period. So what? I guess it goes back to some of the issues we have been discussing in this thread. Personal choice and freedom vs. following the suggestions of training agencies. If you follow the rules and the letter of the "law" you don't go in an overhead without propper training, but before you get too preachy, you can't really call yourself "DIR diver" if you admit to smoking the rare cigar either (if you follow the letter of the law). I guess it is a hard line to draw between the rules that most seem to agree with, and the rules that are pretty much BS. I personally don't feel we need the "scuba police" and let natural selection take it's course. We all have our personal level of risk aversion, my only problem is with those who screw up and die in a manner that threatens how the rest of us want to do things. If you want to call yourself a DIR diver and smoke a cigar every couple of years, who is that going to hurt (other than yourself)? Die in a cave, and it might shut down that cave for the rest of us. I think that preserving individual freedoms is more important than assuring the safety of all individuals.

I understand what you're saying. I think you misunderstood my post. Personally, I don't care if someone smokes and calls themselves a DIR diver. It's the DIR divers on here that state that person isn't a DIR diver. To each his own...

That is interesting in that I did not realize the end restriction in the tunnel was known to open up further in, I thought it just kept narrowing down. I assume over time it also has changed and possibly gotten even narrower due to shifting sand?

Where did you get that idea? It's not known. I've communicated with someone from the original team that laid the line back there and surveyed/mapped the cave and they don't know what happens after that restriction.

 

[vshearer]

Where did you get that idea? It's not known. I've communicated with someone from the original team that laid the line back there and surveyed/mapped the cave and they don't know what happens after that restriction.

It seemed that was what the Sheriff was implying. Thanks for the info as there is a lot of crazy supposition out there.

 

[bigken462]

Sorry if this offends anyone...but I think all the cards need to be laid on the table.

The only cards that should have been laid on the table would have been his certification cards before he checked in; in which he was too lazy and cheap to earn. The guy was a cheat and deserves nothing less than jail time if he is caught alive. If he did die in that cave, he chose to take his own life. Attempting to put blame on anyone else besides Ben McDaniels is just stupid.

Kenny

 

[Rick Murchison]

The only cards that should have been laid on the table would have been his certification cards before he checked in; in which he was too lazy and cheap to earn. The guy was a cheat and deserves nothing less than jail time if he is caught alive. If he did die in that cave, he chose to take his own life. Attempting to put blame on anyone else besides Ben McDaniels is just stupid.

Kenny

Jail time? for what, exactly?
Jury-rigging the gate?
Aside from that, just what "jail time" crime do you think he committed?
Side-stepping SCUBA rules may be less than smart, (and in this case it may be terminally stupid) but it isn't a crime.
Even disappearing isn't a crime, unless it results in dodging debts or committing insurance or some other damaging fraud. Unless you know something I don't know, we don't know if any legally actionable crime's been committed along those lines yet even if he did evaporate on purpose and is holed up somewhere.
I have lots of criticisms of Ben based on what I know so far, but I've yet to get close to "jail time."
Rick

 

[bigken462]

Jail time may not be the best choice of words, however I don't think I'm alone on the fact that I believe this guy needs to be held accountable for staging an event - if this is ever proven to have taken place. The revenue that Vortex has lost, the valuable resources that have been utilized and the donated expense by many of those divers does not need to be overlooked.

I was raised to be held accountable for my actions. It's blatantly obvious many on this thread were not.

Ken

 

[mike_s]

So, I read the first highlighted quote to mean that the Sheriff's Office firmly believes he is in there? Given what you've all been saying about the lack of evidence such as scratches etc., (in your opinions) do they have any particular evidence supporting that belief or is it more of a supposition and/or best guess?

How would he have any evidence to support that? cause he hasn't been back there, and it's clear that he's not listening to expert cave divers like Edd, etc that have told him there is no evidence (scrape marks, etc) to show that ANYONE has recently tried to penetrate past the restriction......

so I don't know why the Sheriff's department won't widen it's focus on other possible scenarios. kinda makes you wonder. opcron:

If he is still alive, how much you wanna' bet that he is following this thread?

I've been wondering that for several weeks.

oh... btw..... Hi Ben! :wavey:

That's what I've been thinking about too... There is this new member, who's only posted in this thread and who's location is "somewhere deep"...



Makes you wonder...

yeah. I kinda wondered that the other day also. Especially when I saw his recent join date and basically only activity in this thread. But I think he's already established under that user name as a cave diver on another forum. (will need to go double check to be 100% sure).