Ginnie Springs, CDA, and Dive Instructor sued over drowning death

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Lawsuits against properties that provide access to scuba diving will result in such properties closing down sadly.

 

[macado]

I have no dog in this fight and I really hope it re-opens. If it doesn't then it would make me re-think spending winters in Florida since I work remotely and diving Ginnie after work every night is well worth the value to me.

For as much as I complain about the Ginnie Springs annual pass pricing it's still far cheaper than what I end up paying for 2-3 days of offshore diving.

Around here I'm looking at $100-150 + tip for a a day for offshore diving. Essentially after 3 dive charters I've "paid" for my Ginnie annual pass. The difference is I don't have to worry about a boat schedule, don't have to worry about bad seas or getting blown out. I can take all the time in the world I want to gear up and do as many dives as I desire 24/7. If I want to go diving at 10pm or 5am I can do it. I can do whatever run times I desire.

That to me makes Ginnie a very attractive place to dive. Sure I can also dive some river caves after hours but I it leaves out the Florida state parks.

 

[cerich]

I have no dog in this fight and I really hope it re-opens. If it doesn't then it would make me re-think spending winters in Florida since I work remotely and diving Ginnie after work every night is well worth the value to me.

For as much as I complain about the Ginnie Springs annual pass pricing it's still far cheaper than what I end up paying for 2-3 days of offshore diving.

Around here I'm looking at $100-150 + tip for a a day for offshore diving. Essentially after 3 dive charters I've "paid" for my Ginnie annual pass. The difference is I don't have to worry about a boat schedule, don't have to worry about bad seas or getting blown out. I can take all the time in the world I want to gear up and do as many dives as I desire 24/7. If I want to go diving at 10pm or 5am I can do it. I can do whatever run times I desire.

That to me makes Ginnie a very attractive place to dive. Sure I can also dive some river caves after hours but I it leaves out the Florida state parks.

JB season pass in Marianna

 

[macado]

JB season pass in Marianna

Yes I know. I'll probably buy a JB Season Pass next winter, the price is certainly right. I've started to spend a bit more time in Marianna but I still like the variety around North Florida area for caves and accessibility to Gainesville.

 

[admikar]

Florida does have that option, but you need to file a motion and judges generally award are selectively about when they award it to defendants as they also don't want to discourage legitimate plaintiffs from filing suits.

Legitimate plaintiffs would win their cases anyway, so no concern. OTOH, "throw s**t until some sticks" plaintiffs would think it over, saving legitimate innocent parties from a lot of grief.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Legitimate plaintiffs would win their cases anyway, so no concern. OTOH, "throw s**t until some sticks" plaintiffs would think it over, saving legitimate innocent parties from a lot of grief.

Legitimate plaintiffs can still lose. It happens all the time.

 

[drrich2]

If they provide zero supervision or oversight or additional safety, then why is it ethical for them to collect extra fees?

Owning entities (state or private) often charge a fee to use on grounds resources. Generally not seen as unethical when a voluntarily engaged in non-essential resource.

Is it not reasonable to assume that for all this extra money (many thousands of dollars each month) that they would at a minimum, provide some superficial level of supervision?

I would argue it's not reasonable to assume that. Another poster figured liability insurance is costly, so that alone might suck up a lot of the money.

It's possible not all divers want supervision of themselves. There are people who like to pay their money, fill out their paperwork, and then go be let well enough alone to do their thing.

I spent a good chunk of my childhood way out in the country ('country,' not 'small town'), and as an older Gen. X guy grew up in an era when 'free range kids' were a normal thing. Some of us got used to going around doing things, yes at times potentially dangerous things, without some authority figure constantly monitoring us and policing everything we did.

I should've bought stock in bubble wrap about 30 years ago...

 

[SlugLife]

Regarding the text I highlighted red: How would that really prevent him from going in the water. It might have made him go register, but since Isaiah was purportedly OW certified, he was nominally qualified to be in the water. So If he had registered he'd be golden.

Precisely. It's an irrelevant fact, because it has no impact or connection to his death.

I fact, the one thing almost entirely missing from the complaint is .... well .... how did he die? The best I can tell is he left the party for a dive, went down, drowned somehow, and that's all that's known. No equipment issues. No contribution of anyone else in any way. Speaking of which, since no dive-buddy is being sued I'm guessing he didn't have one, which I'm guessing goes against his recent training. (Nothing against solo divers, I am one, but he's freshly OW certified).

Well, was he OW certified (which should mean that Isaiah damn well should have had some required SCUBA experience) or not?

Do we have any account of what happened beyond the complaint? Facts of the incident go a long way and the complaint is really "he died - everybody (else) is at fault."

I read the entire complaint, and the only story within is "He died. The end." All of the "facts" claimed in the complaint are entirely irrelevant trivia of things that happened nearby, and if you changed any of the facts, he would likely still be dead.

Rescue divers wouldn't have saved him. Registration wouldn't have saved him. Other people not partying wouldn't have saved him. Even the part about SCUBA equipment, he could have easily bought or tented scuba-equipment himself.

 

[johndiver999]

Owning entities (state or private) often charge a fee to use on grounds resources. Generally not seen as unethical when a voluntarily engaged in non-essential resource.

I would argue it's not reasonable to assume that. Another poster figured liability insurance is costly, so that alone might suck up a lot of the money.

It's possible not all divers want supervision of themselves. There are people who like to pay their money, fill out their paperwork, and then go be let well enough alone to do their thing.

I spent a good chunk of my childhood way out in the country ('country,' not 'small town'), and as an older Gen. X guy grew up in an era when 'free range kids' were a normal thing. Some of us got used to going around doing things, yes at times potentially dangerous things, without some authority figure constantly monitoring us and policing everything we did.

I should've bought stock in bubble wrap about 30 years ago...

Well to extend my hypothetical argument further... They charge a good bit extra and it ain't for a shower. All the other users who did not pay the premium, get equal free use of the showers, so that idea seems to fall away.

If the extra cost is associated with protection from liability, well then maybe they DO have liability... The guy would not have drowned if he was prevented from going in the water.

It really is ridiculous.

 

[SlugLife]

The guy would not have drowned if he was prevented from going in the water. It really is ridiculous.

"If you weren't parked in that parking spot, I wouldn't have crashed into your car."

negligence

www.law.cornell.edu

A failure to behave with the level of care that someone of ordinary prudence would have exercised under the same circumstances. The behavior usually consists of actions, but can also consist of omissions when there is some duty to act (e.g., a duty to help victims of one's previous conduct).

If we're talking "ordinary prudence under the same circumstances" where are these parks which allow scuba-divers, which have rescue-divers ready to act at all times? If they exist, they're exceedingly rare.

As far as "duty to act," we have basically the same problem. Even if they had a duty to paying scuba-divers normally, the guy effectively snuck into the place. It's not much different from someone who deliberately sneaks into my back-yard, for the purpose of swimming in my pool, gets really high on drugs and drowns while I'm out of town. Even if we really stretch it, maybe I can hire a lifeguard when the pool is open, but what am I supposed to do when the pool is closed?

"If you didn't have a swimming pool, he wouldn't have drowned" So, you're saying nobody should have a swimming pool?