Ginnie Springs diver missing - Florida

[rjack321]

Coronor's Reports aren't subject to public record laws in Florida, you can thank the Dale Earnhardt for that. You need either next of kin permission or a court order. There are no research exceptions either.

When did that change? I thought they were public?

If the cause of death is medical or quasi-medical (hypoxia, hyperoxia, hypercapnia) then this analysis is going to be weak or speculative without it. And we end up back in the McCoy/Ginnie rescue/non-rescue scenario where competing egos end up bashing people in public claiming his efforts were inadequate and "they could have saved him" when in reality it was impossible. Something that was leaked months later and the chest thumping instructor whole claimed he could have swooped in and saved the day (which he has ZERO track record of ever doing) never apologized for his previous smear comments.

But we aren't requesting that, nor does the IUCRR collect that.

And how is that useful for medical or quasi medical related accidents? We'll all just speculate it was hypoxia when it could have been a stroke etc.

 

[rjack321]

In a broader picture, wouldn't the state have this in some form? For example, I can't imagine a cave recovery team dropping a body off to a coroner (or wherever it goes), without saying something to the affect of 'they died during a scuba dive' if that's what happened. On the receiving end of the body, I can't imagine there's a list of reasons why someone is there, and that reason is 'they died'.... Is there something I'm missing?

Edit: Hadn't read the few previous posts before writing this. They do shed some light on what I was getting at.

At least around here most deceased with no evidence of foul play are quickly released to a funeral home. Autopsies are only done on a small fraction of accidental deaths.

 

[Manatee Diver]

When did that change? I thought they were public?

They were until Dale Earnheardt died, and due to the media requesting the autopsy and photos there were a bunch of lawsuits and finally a state law that shut that door.

If the cause of death is medical or quasi-medical (hypoxia, hyperoxia, hypercapnia) then this analysis is going to be weak or speculative without it.


And how is that useful for medical or quasi medical related accidents? We'll all just speculate it was hypoxia when it could have been a stroke etc.

There isn't much that can be done about that. A researcher, I suppose, could work to get next of kin permission.

 

[KevinNM]

I doubt that much of it has been vetted by a lawyer. Ken, on his now deleted CDF post, cited HIPPA as a reason to not report some deaths. There is no way that the information collected by the IUCRR would be covered by HIPPA privacy rules, as the IUCRR isn't covered entity by any remote stretch of the law.

HIPAA does not cover people once they stop being alive, at least according to the State of New Mexico’s Office of the Medical Examiner. They will very rarely have some information that is not releasable due to HIPAA, that tends to be inherited conditions shared with siblings etc.

 

[Johnoly]

When did that change? I thought they were public?.

The terms “Autopsy” and “Report” get treated with very broad misunderstandings in Florida. If a person/organization is requesting “information” they must be very specific or the entire request will be rejected (not denied). The actual autopsy video, photos and audio are exempt from Fla S. 119.07(1) {ie open records}. But the M.E.'s several other 'written' reports that their office generates in a death ARE SUBJECT to open records. IMHO those written reports contain much more precise information to re-assemble the chain of events in the accident. This is the wrong thread to list those reports so I'll bypass that part.

 

[GLightcap]

how are they going to do an investigation if the IUCRR does not release the information which is the subject of the argument? More importantly, as soon as the incident is deemed an accident, the case is closed and the information can be released. That's why I said a brief statement from the IUCRR would be no different than what the news reports when the incident is occurring. IUCRR divers are NOT affiliated with anyone but the IUCRR and that is not an "agency" so drawing the lines to first responders who actually have a spokesperson is not really a fair comparison.

I understand. It sounds like IUCRR does not have sufficient pressure to release the basic facts for the purposes of cause investigation and prevention. I agree, it is different being a private individual vs a municipal firefighter. I think DAN or Duke University along with the support of the training and certifying organizations could apply enough pressure to get the information released at least to their investigators.

 

[GLightcap]

What people are asking for isn't opinion, but the list of deaths and the basic facts as gathered by the IUCRR. Even if there is no report, just a list of deaths would be helpful for basic analysis. On CDF someone posted a basic Freedom of Information letter, that letter does little good if someone has to spend weeks just trying to find out who died where

FOIA requests could be useful if the police department receives the information from IUCRR for their investigation. But a municipality could be considered a health care provider because they do provide patient care in some cases. But in a recovery I'm not sure if HIPPA would apply because their is no medical care provided. I doubt IUCRR would have any requirement to release information under FOIA since they are not a government entity.

 

[rjack321]

HIPAA does not cover people once they stop being alive, at least according to the State of New Mexico’s Office of the Medical Examiner. They will very rarely have some information that is not releasable due to HIPAA, that tends to be inherited conditions shared with siblings etc.

Sounds like FL is more like WA now than I realized. State law is controlling (at least to some extent) what can be released.

I don't actually have a problem with this and if a medical event is the trigger for a drowning I'm not one to pry beyond that.

 

[Manatee Diver]

FOIA requests could be useful if the police department receives the information from IUCRR for their investigation. But a municipality could be considered a health care provider because they do provide patient care in some cases. But in a recovery I'm not sure if HIPPA would apply because their is no medical care provided. I doubt IUCRR would have any requirement to release information under FOIA since they are not a government entity.

Just because a municipal government provides care, say through EMS or through a local health department, any HIPAA requirements would be that agency alone. And it would only apply if they actually bill people for the same. So while many LE agencies may provide first aid, but because they don't normally bill for it as part of their day to day business HIPAA wouldn't apply. Everyone fears HIPAA, but it is fairly narrowly targeted toward the healthcare industry. If you aren't directly working with the healthcare industry directly you have little to fear.

Now I suppose if an IUCRR diver was a doctor and had provided care to the dead diver, and the doctor provided some background medical information to the team. That information could be HIPAA protected information. Though as KevinNM posted there are claims that HIPAA protections end at death (though I can't confirm my knowledge of HIPAA was about when and where the requirements applied from an IT perspective for designing their security measures). And really the doctor is the one on the hook.

 

[Jcp2]

HIPAA. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

HIPPA. A genus of decapodcrustaceans in the family Hippidae.

Just checking.