Going to college to pursue a career in dive medicine research-any advice?

[kaylee_ann]

By the way, a topic you can't anticipate and at your point in life may not've even thought much of, but that can be very important later is...politics. The kind I'm talking about is how well you get along with your supervisor and/or department head/chairman.

If you and the boss have bad chemistry, or you resent the way he runs things, a job can go badly. Even if you've been there long enough to be somewhat secure (let's say tenured in an academic position, or valuable enough in industry not to be arbitrarily downsized), you may find yourself wanting to leave.

The more specialized you get vocationally, the narrower your job position opportunities. So highly specialized positions with few employers make a person more vulnerable to workplace politics.

I doubt pointing this out is helpful to you right now. I'm doing it because the 'school' part of professional career paths is often light on discussion of politics, but in real life politics are a big deal.

You can't have a detailed answer for every possible contingency in making a career plan. This isn't about discouraging you, just shining a little light on the path so when things come up, you're not surprised. 'Forewarned is forearmed...'

Ahhhh I hate this. The one field I REALLY want to get into has like no jobs. Figures it’s gotta be that way.
I’m fairly familiar with the “office politics”…basically gotta know who you’re talking to and who you are in relation to them. And for the most part suck it up lol

 

[formernuke]

Ok first off pursue your dreams, by all means do it just realize what your getting into and do it smartly. I'm going to give you a few examples.

To start I have a bachelor's, law degree and associate degree gotten in thar order. So BA plus 3 years you are looking a lot more school than that.

Colleges and lending companies are almost predators the way they treat young people.

I did my BA while active duty mostly paid for by navy tuition assistance. CT has free tuition to wartime vets so I had to buy books, fees and living expenses. This was covered by gi bill as was my associate degree.

A friend of mine from law school also had free tuition but used her gi bill plus some loans for undergrad. Her loans for the other expenses of law school and undergraduate, her student loans have payments over 2k a month.

Student loans have a low income repayment plan where they look at your income, real base living expenses for your area and your student loan debt. One of my former coworkers making 110k a year is on such a repayment plan because his student loan balances are so high (also an attorney).

So what you need to do is anything you can to reduce you loans.

1. All degrees have core requirements, no matter what the major is you have to take these core classes.
Do these at a community College, much less expensive than a four year especially a high prestige 4 year.

2. Work as much as you can while keeping up with studies.
Use this to pay living expenses and make prinicple payments on any loans that collect interest while still in school. Note you do not have to make payments on any but some collect interest while in school and any private ones are higher than credit cards. Make principal payments on these.

3. Limit all spending to strictly necessities, welcome to living on roman noodles and spam. Anything not needed to actually survive or school is gone.

Finally find a low cost hobby, preferably an active one. In law school some created baseball or soccer teams etc with other locals. Walk to the field and play for a bit. Set aside a small amount of time for it every week (mine in undergrad was 3 hours a week. This will keep you sane.

 

[drrich2]

1. All degrees have core requirements, no matter what the major is you have to take these core classes.
Do these at a community College, much less expensive than a four year especially a high prestige 4 year.

2. Work as much as you can while keeping up with studies.

I agree with a serious commitment to debt minimization/reduction. And I'm so much going to argue with your points as present another side of it. At the undergrad. level, I was a Bio. major/Chem. minor (4-year plan), who decided to double major in Biology and Chemistry (which took 4 1/2 years, with an extra semester in there where I just took electives). I often had science labs tying up afternoons, and needed to pull a 3.5+ cumulative GPA to get a crack at medical school. I did all my undergrad. work at a 4-year state university.

I have a cousin who became a civil engineer (demanding math in undergrad.), who did the 'community college, then university route.' So he, too, had a hard academic road.

Before you take his road (which I agree, may be cheaper), consider these things:

1.) In hard major/minor combo.s, spacing out some of those easy general education requirements can help you withstand the rigors of your full time course load. Know what goes great with Calculus I, Organic Chemistry I and Comparative Anatomy? Art Appreciation! Or Public Speaking! Pretty much any 'cake' elective you barely have to study for.

If you take all your gen. ed. requirements at community college, you may be packing your hard core major/minor-related coursework into 2 or 3 years.

2.) Don't assume science coursework for a major/minor can be crammed into 2 years. For me, General (i.e.: Inorganic) Chemistry I & II were pre-requisite to Organic Chem. I & II, which was pre-requisite to Biochem I & II. And Vertebrate Physiology and Cell & Molecular Biology had to go in there somewhere. Freshman Biology, Vertebrate Zoology, Invertebrate Zoology, Comparative Anatomy, Botany, Regional Flora, General Ecology, Microbiology, Quantitative Analysis (never mind Qualitative Analysis and Physical Chem I & II that I had to have for the Chemistry major portion), that had to go in there, too.

Yes, I could've banged out some gen. ed. requirements at a community college, but 2-years community then 2-years university? No. The old Warren Buffett (IIRC) comment that you can't make a baby in 1 month by getting 9 women pregnant comes to mind.

3.) The longer you are at your university, the more time you have to bond with instructors. Some of whom may be writing you letters of recommendation for things like graduate school.

4.) Science labs really take time. If you've got a traditional 15 hour course load, that's 5 3-credit hour classes, probably 3 MWF and 2 TueThurs. or some such. A science major with an 18 hour load, had that, but 3 afternoons per week are tied up with roughly 3-hour science labs. Not every semester has to be 18-hours, but wow! You can get burnt out.

Unless you are brilliant, dearly love academics, are high energy and love to be involved (e.g.: high functioning workaholic), the combination of the demands of your major/minor combo. and need to get high grades, I suggest at least at first you avoid extracurriculars. Jobs, frat.s, sororities, no-no-no. If you need a job, okay, but if you've got the resources to dedicate yourself full time to study (without big loans), take it.

Exception: summer research positions to pad your resume (which you'll start calling your curriculum vitae or 'c.v.' at some point) may be useful. Maybe you can even make a buck?

 

[kaylee_ann]

I agree with a serious commitment to debt minimization/reduction. And I'm so much going to argue with your points as present another side of it. At the undergrad. level, I was a Bio. major/Chem. minor (4-year plan), who decided to double major in Biology and Chemistry (which took 4 1/2 years, with an extra semester in there where I just took electives). I often had science labs tying up afternoons, and needed to pull a 3.5+ cumulative GPA to get a crack at medical school. I did all my undergrad. work at a 4-year state university.

I have a cousin who became a civil engineer (demanding math in undergrad.), who did the 'community college, then university route.' So he, too, had a hard academic road.

Before you take his road (which I agree, may be cheaper), consider these things:

1.) In hard major/minor combo.s, spacing out some of those easy general education requirements can help you withstand the rigors of your full time course load. Know what goes great with Calculus I, Organic Chemistry I and Comparative Anatomy? Art Appreciation! Or Public Speaking! Pretty much any 'cake' elective you barely have to study for.

If you take all your gen. ed. requirements at community college, you may be packing your hard core major/minor-related coursework into 2 or 3 years.

2.) Don't assume science coursework for a major/minor can be crammed into 2 years. For me, General (i.e.: Inorganic) Chemistry I & II were pre-requisite to Organic Chem. I & II, which was pre-requisite to Biochem I & II. And Vertebrate Physiology and Cell & Molecular Biology had to go in there somewhere. Freshman Biology, Vertebrate Zoology, Invertebrate Zoology, Comparative Anatomy, Botany, Regional Flora, General Ecology, Microbiology, Quantitative Analysis (never mind Qualitative Analysis and Physical Chem I & II that I had to have for the Chemistry major portion), that had to go in there, too.

Yes, I could've banged out some gen. ed. requirements at a community college, but 2-years community then 2-years university? No. The old Warren Buffett (IIRC) comment that you can't make a baby in 1 month by getting 9 women pregnant comes to mind.

3.) The longer you are at your university, the more time you have to bond with instructors. Some of whom may be writing you letters of recommendation for things like graduate school.

4.) Science labs really take time. If you've got a traditional 15 hour course load, that's 5 3-credit hour classes, probably 3 MWF and 2 TueThurs. or some such. A science major with an 18 hour load, had that, but 3 afternoons per week are tied up with roughly 3-hour science labs. Not every semester has to be 18-hours, but wow! You can get burnt out.

Unless you are brilliant, dearly love academics, are high energy and love to be involved (e.g.: high functioning workaholic), the combination of the demands of your major/minor combo. and need to get high grades, I suggest at least at first you avoid extracurriculars. Jobs, frat.s, sororities, no-no-no. If you need a job, okay, but if you've got the resources to dedicate yourself full time to study (without big loans), take it.

Exception: summer research positions to pad your resume (which you'll start calling your curriculum vitae or 'c.v.' at some point) may be useful. Maybe you can even make a buck?

Yeah I’m going to the same college all 4 years. I want the familiarity ya know? Like what you were saying with knowing the teachers. I am so excited for internships. My hope is to go to the DAN one

 

[drrich2]

I am so excited for internships. My hope is to go to the DAN one

Those create the appearance of a sincere passion for the science, the possibility of doing future prestigious research that might bring in grants and make you an asset to a university, and help you build a network of people to write letters of recommendation and let you know about jobs.

I get a free e-mail and can read a couple articles per month free (because I'm too cheap to pay for a subscription) to The Chronicle of Higher Education. If you intend to pursue a Ph.D., some of the content may be worth your time.

Here's what's bothering me. From reading, I get the impression the academic industry is turning out more Ph.D grad.s than there are good jobs readily available for. Getting an advanced degree does not automatically open the door to a nice lifestyle/career.

So before you commit to pursue a Ph.D in physiology, biochemistry or who-knows-what-else, do some checking and ask how strong the job market is in that field.

Many people who have an interest get a job that doesn't focus on that. The person who considered marine biology might become a university biology instructor, keep a reef tank and do some scuba diving, for example.

And research often doesn't look like people may think. Our marine biologist might be monitoring starfish declines out of California, studying invasive sargassum overgrowth or measuring pollutant levels rather than tagging sharks.

 

[kaylee_ann]

Those create the appearance of a sincere passion for the science, the possibility of doing future prestigious research that might bring in grants and make you an asset to a university, and help you build a network of people to write letters of recommendation and let you know about jobs.

I get a free e-mail and can read a couple articles per month free (because I'm too cheap to pay for a subscription) to The Chronicle of Higher Education. If you intend to pursue a Ph.D., some of the content may be worth your time.

Here's what's bothering me. From reading, I get the impression the academic industry is turning out more Ph.D grad.s than there are good jobs readily available for. Getting an advanced degree does not automatically open the door to a nice lifestyle/career.

So before you commit to pursue a Ph.D in physiology, biochemistry or who-knows-what-else, do some checking and ask how strong the job market is in that field.

Many people who have an interest get a job that doesn't focus on that. The person who considered marine biology might become a university biology instructor, keep a reef tank and do some scuba diving, for example.

And research often doesn't look like people may think. Our marine biologist might be monitoring starfish declines out of California, studying invasive sargassum overgrowth or measuring pollutant levels rather than tagging sharks.

Honestly I just love learning about all this stuff so much that the idea of an internship specifically for dive research/safety etc literally would be a dream come true. I’ll definitely talk to more people about the current job market for dive researchers.
I’m not after a Ph.D for money or the lifestyle or anything…it’s what’s required to get into the field so that’s what I’ll do.
Thanks for the input!
Btw, would you be willing to read over the application essay I wrote? It’s a rough draft for now.

 

[Akimbo]

The person who considered marine biology might become a university biology instructor, keep a reef tank and do some scuba diving, for example.

Unfortunately, in my limited sphere of visibility, more people with a BS in marine biology work as baristas and high school science teachers than anything related to marine biology. A classic case of supply exceeding demand.

 

[dmaziuk]

Here's what's bothering me. From reading, I get the impression the academic industry is turning out more Ph.D grad.s than there are good jobs readily available for.

There aren't "good jobs" left in academia. There used to be, but with all the crises and bubbles and monetization, what's still left are very few and very far between. Basically at this point if you go for Ph.D., you better have a non-academic job lined up for afterwards.

These days going for a postdoc after Ph. D. only makes sense if there is a building in a University somewhere with your gramp's name on it, or something along these lines.

 

[kaylee_ann]

There aren't "good jobs" left in academia. There used to be, but with all the crises and bubbles and monetization, what's still left are very few and very far between. Basically at this point if you go for Ph.D., you better have a non-academic job lined up for afterwards.

These days going for a postdoc after Ph. D. only makes sense if there is a building in a University somewhere with your gramp's name on it, or something along these lines.

Yeah, like sure, there may be lots of dive research going on at Duke and DAN. Doesn’t mean they’re looking for new researchers.

 

[Angelo Farina]

hey! so I've recently decided I want to go to school and get into dive medicine/decompression theory research. I've talked to someone who's actually a member of the DAN research team, who said I'd be able to get a job in the field, so that's all well and good. now, though, I'm having trouble deciding on a major. I'm thinking biology with either a biochemistry, cellular/molecular biology or biotechnology concentration. I really don't know where to decide lol. what do you think? or should I choose something different altogether? thanks

Disclaimer: I am a professor at the University of Parma, ITALY, and this makes my opinion biased.

First suggestion, that I gave to my sons ad all my students: the best thing in your life is getting a job on which you have passion. You will enjoy your job, and excel in it...
Most people settle doing a job they hate, just for getting some money to survive, and spend a miserable life dreaming something else...
So I warmly encourage you to follow your dreams, and prepare yourself for a job you will love. Money is not everything. And money will come, when you excel in a job. But you can only excel if you truly love it!

Second suggestion: look around. Most people have a vison of academic training limited to the place where they live, and do not understand the worldwide picture. This is particularly true for Americans, who are ready to move by thousands miles for an University on the other side of the continent, but who usually do not evaluate the possibility to migrate to Europe, Asia, Africa or Australia for their university courses.
American universities have some very good points (plenty of money for research and labs, good procedures for hiring highly skilled teachers). But they suffer of other drawbacks, which you can fully understand only when comparing to the rest of the world: the main problem for students is the cost of tuition, which is absurdly large. University courses are much cheaper in other countries, often entirely free here in Europe. Here you even get some money for food and lodging, if you apply for being subsidised.
The other big problem is the high degree of specialisation which is typical of US post-graduate training. This can be good for getting top-notch skills on a specific topic, but can make it difficult, as others have already pointed out, to find a number of possible work positions corresponding to your specialisation.
Here in Europe we provide a much broader training. This means that, whatever is the specialisation chosen, you have a solid and broad base, allowing you to switch to other fields of work.

So I suggest that you evaluate the possibility to emigrate to another country for 6-9 years (the time required for a basic MD degree is 6 years, plus 3 years of specialisation or PhD).
You will learn another language, another culture, this will open your brains and make you a better person, not only a better doctor.
You will also probably save some 200,000 or 300,000 USD, which can be good for your personal finance in the medium and long term, as you will not have any student's debt to pay back...

Third suggestion: I am not sure that you understand the main goal of medicine is curing patients.
Medical doctors are not "scientists", and, with a few exceptions, they do not make "research". Ok, they do "clinical research", which, as seen from the perspective of "true" scientists, is another thing.
If you dream doing real research, probably being trained as a medical doctor is not the best choice.
A Master Degree in Biology, Biochemistry, Natural Sciences, etc., followed by a PhD related to diving is probably a better starting point for working as a researcher in diving physiology.
Also consider that being a Medical Doctor requires strong ethics and the capability of bearing the responsibility of the life of your patients. I have always been very grateful to doctors who did take care of my health, but I admit that I could not bear such responsibility. Becoming a Medical Doctor is not just matter of studying and applying, you must own a special character (which I do not own).