Going to PNG in 3 Weeks!

[silent running]

Yes I am a little offended. I started this thread to get positive reaction to my trip in general and not get lectured about the negative attributes of the one boat over the other. I certainly regret using the word "comfortable" in one of my replies as this seemed to spark something deep inside of you to inform us of all the negatives involved in everything associated with the Star Dancer. According to you I could expect to 1) Be fed mediocre food prepared by inexperinced cooks, 2) Only dive the good dive sites if the water is flat calm, 3) Break a few fingers if there are any waves at all 4) Receive bad service from the crew because they probably don't care 5) Go knowing that my tour operator screwed me and knows nothing about what they are selling. Well Andy I hope your intentions weren't to deliberatly spoil our trip, or, that you don't have a hidden agenda here against the SD. All this information you have provided could have been placed in a different thread, possibly one that is seeking opinions of the experienced regulars here - BEFORE - a decision is made. Your zeal in "sticking up" for the owner/operators is commendable but, if not carefully filtered, could alienate some of those you are trying to help.
CN

Hello CN, if I actually meant some offense towards you, I would not have apologized. And I wish you had noticed that I offered plenty of encouragement along with my opinions, not all of which were critical. As for said opinions, there is no need to subscribe to all the worst case scenerios and assume they will happen to you.

Personally, I'm glad for any unfiltered opinions/info that I can get from public forums like this. This is one of the only places you can get this kind of information and then have a dialogue.

As for hidden agendas, what seems to be at issue here is my lack of restraint in expressing my views and perspective, not anything hinted at. Part of the reason I piped up was because your posts felt familiar to me both because I have read similar things from other first time PNG travelers and from my own experience the first time. As for your intention in starting this thread, I have started plenty of threads and always received some unsolicted opinions. Sometimes they were helpful, sometimes not. That is the nature of a public forum. If people stopped posting things that contradict one another, these forums would likely be reduced to a bunch of small glad-handing cliques. That would not be my idea of an interesting exchange of information.

Believe it or not, I was trying to be of some use. Having dived most of PNG in the last 5 years, I have been able to help out people more often than not with the information I collected at great cost. While I may have given you more info than you asked for, it was not all critical and some of it should be helpful to you. Also, I was not posting info only for you, there was another person who was trying to make a decision about their future liveaboard plans who might have gotten something out of it. Sorry I was not more helpful to you this time.-Andy

 

[silent running]

FeBrina has a pretty "flat" hull too. I've been on the SD and haven't felt it to be too "rolling".

Well. if the waves are a-beam, you will be under water at one point and hanging many feet above water at another. If there is any wind/current (ever so common in PNG), you don't really know how the waves will hit you.

Hello Allison, a couple of points:
The Febrina's hull may not be a very deep draft v, but she definitely has more of a v and I think she has a deeper draft than SD. She is also not as tall/top heavy as SD. These things together make a difference. You may not have been bothered by her rolling but I have talked to some who were.

As for your point about being a-beam, I don't know any Captains who would allow a boat to sit that way while putting divers in the water or picking them up. Most of the time there are swells, a boat will right itself to be 90 degrees to the wave and at this point she will begin to see-saw. On the rare occaision that I have seen the wind strong enough to overcome the waves and put a boat a-beam, the Capt. started the engine and put her at 90 to the waves or moved to a calmer place and sent us out in the tender. As for Golden Dawn, she has active gyro stabilizers which are specifically designed to compensate for a-beam conditions and passive flopper-stoppers which help dampen side to side movement while at anchor.

As for Alan selling Febrina and concentrating on SD, I guess if he wants to run only one boat, the SD would be a logical choice as she will take more divers.-Andy

 

[caymaniac]

I've heard mostly good reports from Golden Dawn at Eastern Fields. I have also heard a couple of not so good reports. Mike Ball seems to have this predjuice against Americans when it comes to charging alot more for them on a trip, otherwise they would be a great choice. SD does not have a problem with rates for Americans. SD has had some reports that tilt torwards mediocrity. I think that this mediocrity comes from the meals sserved by SD., they were all very good maybe not 5 star. Then again one must remember that the waters off west New Britain still hold some of the greatest diversity of sea life in the world and this is why one would dive from a liveaboard off PNG. I was very happy with the Star Dancer. I would recommend them. Cpt. Rab was on Febrina when we took our trip on SD., even though I haven't met him or tripped with him, I am still telling you SD was worth it. I did board Febrina and thought it was somewhat more Spartan, I liked the size of SD and the rooms.

So, you can tilt your dive report anyway you want, it doesn't bother me. There are plenty of others out there that have an opinion different than yours,...I'm one.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Hi CN - I will be on the Star Dancer on the trip going out the 19th, you must be on the one previous. I read the thread and nothing anyone says will spoil my trip. I did a lot of research and read a lot of reviews before deciding on the Star Dancer and I am sure that there are some negative things that can be said about EVRY liveaboard and I am sure I will discover some myself while on the trip. But I am very confident about my decision to go on the Star Dancer. I cant wait to get there and dive on some of the best dive spots in the world, and I will have a great time no matter what as will you. It is going to be the trip of a lifetime for me!!

When we get back to Cairns we will also be doing a two night/three day on Pro Dive. Since we are traveling that far we thought we might as well dive the Great Barrier Reef.

Anyone else going to be on the Star Dancer on the same trip?

Hi acj, I'm with you on my decision to go with the Star Dancer. Looking forward to a trip of a lifetime. We will miss each other by a day. Our trip is over on the 18th. A sad day it will be but after 30-40 dives I am sure I will be waterlogged.

Hey Allison & Caymaniac, thanks for your support here. I am more than ready to move on to a more positive discussion. I had asked if story books would be appropriate or even used. Would be will to bring those along for the kids if so. Also, we will have a good part of an afternoon & an overnight in Cairns. We are planning on renting a car and driving up to Korunda (sp?) to see the Koala Bears. We will be in Cairns too late for the Skyrail so a car is our only option. Does anyone know if this is doable? Not knowing the lay of the land or the distance. Any favorite restaurants or special places to see in Cairns? Oh and Allison, I would appreciate your opinion on Port Moresby.

Thanks

CN

 

[scubashooter]

I've heard mostly good reports from Golden Dawn at Eastern Fields. I have also heard a couple of not so good reports. Mike Ball seems to have this predjuice against Americans when it comes to charging alot more for them on a trip, otherwise they would be a great choice. SD does not have a problem with rates for Americans. SD has had some reports that tilt torwards mediocrity. I think that this mediocrity comes from the meals sserved by SD., they were all very good maybe not 5 star. Then again one must remember that the waters off west New Britain still hold some of the greatest diversity of sea life in the world and this is why one would dive from a liveaboard off PNG. I was very happy with the Star Dancer. I would recommend them. Cpt. Rab was on Febrina when we took our trip on SD., even though I haven't met him or tripped with him, I am still telling you SD was worth it. I did board Febrina and thought it was somewhat more Spartan, I liked the size of SD and the rooms.
So, you can tilt your dive report anyway you want, it doesn't bother me. There are plenty of others out there that have an opinion different than yours,...I'm one.

Caymaniac, the american rate problem at Mike Ball is a thing of the past (2003/4 was the last year I believe). Actually they charged the Japanese the same or more than Americans. But now they have a standard rate published on their website. Ballie's rip the dummies policy changed thanks to the internet and also competition.
CN, besides aroma, there is also Star 98, which serves indian/malaysian food. Take a taxi and tell him to wait for you or have the restaurant get you one for the trip back.
As for hotels, the Airways is most convenient. The other side of PM has a few nice hotels esp in Boroko. But the airways is probably the best for convenience sake. The food was ok.
The problem with recommendations on liveaboards is that many people have favorites based on their own likes/dislikes. I've been on 7 of the liveaboards in PNG, multiple times on 4 of them, mostly based on destination. The Chertan's Rob Van Der Loo is great but I got tired of sharing heads. However, on the Chertan, Telita and Paradise Sport, I was diving at 1 am with the crew, you can't beat that. The various owners/captains of the respective boats (save the paradise sport, which has a transient crew) are characters and seasoned skippers. So for some, the technical excellence of the Golden Dawn is more important than the spacious deck and ozzie style of the paradise sport, or the personal treatment of the Chertan etc etc.
Just go have fun and if anything bad happens, let us know about it. We'll temper it with either the boats themselves or other's opinions (which on the internet is never all that accurate)

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Hi scubashooter, Great info. That 1am dive had to be something special.

Thanks

CN

 

[Allison Finch]

Quote from Silent Running:Hello Allison, a couple of points:
The Febrina's hull may not be a very deep draft v, but she definitely has more of a v and I think she has a deeper draft than SD. She is also not as tall/top heavy as SD. These things together make a difference. You may not have been bothered by her rolling but I have talked to some who were.


Well, after spending MANY hours looking up at the bottom of the FeBrina, I can tell you that her hull is flat. Period.
Also, she is more topheavy than SD. She was not designed to have that top deck she now sports. That whole top deck was added a number of years ago. It has changed her dynamics a lot.


Quote from Silent Running:As for your point about being a-beam, I don't know any Captains who would allow a boat to sit that way while putting divers in the water or picking them up. On the rare occaision that I have seen the wind strong enough to overcome the waves and put a boat a-beam, the Capt. started the engine and put her at 90 to the waves


WOW! I would love to try to get onto a boat with the screws turning. It would put a whole new meaning to the term "getting screwed".


Really Silent, you need to get all your facts.

 

[Allison Finch]

Hi acj, I'm with you on my decision to go with the Star Dancer. Looking forward to a trip of a lifetime. We will miss each other by a day. Our trip is over on the 18th. A sad day it will be but after 30-40 dives I am sure I will be waterlogged.

Hey Allison & Caymaniac, thanks for your support here. I am more than ready to move on to a more positive discussion. I had asked if story books would be appropriate or even used. Would be will to bring those along for the kids if so. Also, we will have a good part of an afternoon & an overnight in Cairns. We are planning on renting a car and driving up to Korunda (sp?) to see the Koala Bears. We will be in Cairns too late for the Skyrail so a car is our only option. Does anyone know if this is doable? Not knowing the lay of the land or the distance. Any favorite restaurants or special places to see in Cairns? Oh and Allison, I would appreciate your opinion on Port Moresby.

Thanks


My answer;

Well, I find that the kids really like lollies (candy) and pens for school. Small kids t-shirts and shorts are nice too, but you will get scads of kids paddling to your boat and it will be hard to have enough for them all. inflatable balls and frisbees are nice, as well as balsa wood planes. You will have to show the kids how to throw a frisbee, so make sure they will float. Bubble blowers are fun. Hair picks are sought after. I always bring a suitcase of school supplies for the schools on Garove Island in the Witus.

I like Port Moresby, but you really have to be careful. Get a taxi from your hotel. Ask the manager what the price should be and check with the driver. They will gouge you if they can. Make sure you go to PNG Arts and Pay your driver to wait for you! The prices are very fair in that store and they have wonderful native crafts. Also go to the Botanical gardens.

 

[silent running]

Quote from Silent Running:Hello Allison, a couple of points:
The Febrina's hull may not be a very deep draft v, but she definitely has more of a v and I think she has a deeper draft than SD. She is also not as tall/top heavy as SD. These things together make a difference. You may not have been bothered by her rolling but I have talked to some who were.


Well, after spending MANY hours looking up at the bottom of the FeBrina, I can tell you that her hull is flat. Period.
Also, she is more topheavy than SD. She was not designed to have that top deck she now sports. That whole top deck was added a number of years ago. It has changed her dynamics a lot.


Quote from Silent Running:As for your point about being a-beam, I don't know any Captains who would allow a boat to sit that way while putting divers in the water or picking them up. On the rare occaision that I have seen the wind strong enough to overcome the waves and put a boat a-beam, the Capt. started the engine and put her at 90 to the waves


WOW! I would love to try to get onto a boat with the screws turning. It would put a whole new meaning to the term "getting screwed".


Really Silent, you need to get all your facts.

Hello Allison, I too have seen the underside of Febrina and she did not look very flat to me, especially up at her rather sharp bow. In fact very few boat hulls are completely flat and most taper down to their keels, some more than others. And all get more flat towards the rear. Having seen both of their hulls, I still think Febrina has more of a v. As I said earlier, SD started out as an oil rig tender with a flatter, planing type hull designed for speed and economy, not stability. And she probably also had 2 more engines than she now does, which would have put a lot more weight down in the hull and made her center of gravity lower than it is today. I was aware that Febrina had the upper story added and I'm sure this did not improve her stability, but she has a wider beam proportionally to her length than SD which helps to offset this. And her second story is made of lighter materials than the SD's heavier steel superstructure. Most significantly, the SD is probably made more top heavy due to the pontoons she had added to her hull several years ago along either side to give her more freeboard, which makes her sit higher in the water. So from a stability standpoint, I'd still prefer Febrina over SD by a small margin.
As for the bit about, getting out of the water with the screws turning, I never suggested any such thing. Only that if the boat can't be righted to 90 dgrees to the swell, she should move to calmer waters and send out the tender. Funny though that you should mention what's know as a "live pick up", which were it necessary (or the much more common "live drop off") would be no big deal with a mid entry point but very dangerous with a rear entry boat. -Andy

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Hi Allison, thanks for the advise on Port Moresby, our agent at Papua Nuigini Expeditions has arranged a Port Moresby tour with a trip to the Arts museum. The tour folks in Port Moresby are Trans Niugini Tours. Have you heard of them? Any way sounds like they will take us to all the top sites in Port Moresby. Cost US$50 each. Pick up/drop off at airport.

As for the kids items, I think I will call Michelle at Peter Hughes to see if our itinery will take us to locations that will bring us in contact with the locals. We are going from Kavieng to Hoskins. This route is done only a few times within the year and may be a route that is all open ocean. I would hate to bring items for the kids and then not come in contact with any.

CN