GUE Cave Training?

[PfcAJ]

He was on 120 gas (35/25) on the way in across the shallow sinkholes, dropped a bottle of 240 gas (15/55) at 70' on accident, switched to 70 gas (50/50) at 120'.

You've GOT to look at that sticker. Every. Single. Time.

 

[rjack321]

I don't think this is true. It's my understanding that he was breathing 120 gas from the surface, dropped the deep gas at 70ft, then switched to the 70 bottle at 120.

Its coming back to me and "ugh"

I agree here. What I took from the accident is that after leaving every bottle drop, verify that the bottles you're carrying are "safe".

I have brought shallow bottles past their MOD in a cave. But it was a case where the cave went down below 100ft and then back up to 70ft. We were so tight on helium (hours and hours from anyplace to get more) that we decided to only dive the "deep" gas in the deep section. Lesson learned, we spent so much time futzing at the bottle drops / check to be able to dive 32% before and after the deep section that we'd have been off just bringing a suitable gas all the way through.

---------- Post added March 13th, 2013 at 11:26 AM ----------

You've GOT to look at that sticker. Every. Single. Time.

Absolutely.

However its really overkill to be agonizing over switches on single stage or even multi-stage dives where everything is the same gas and everything is safe to breath at any time. TS&M's buddy waiting forever for her to verify his (her) switch back onto a dropped stage in MX is a good example of taking protocol to a level which is missing the forest and the trees.

 

[ucfdiver]

However its really overkill to be agonizing over switches on single stage or even multi-stage dives where everything is the same gas and everything is safe to breath at any time. TS&M's buddy waiting forever for her to verify his (her) switch back onto a dropped stage in MX is a good example of taking protocol to a level which is missing the forest and the trees.

I don't think it's necessary, but I'm not sure that following a standardized path is necessarily missing the forest.

 

[LiteHedded]

newsflash: not all cave dives come straight out of the gue text book.

 

[rjack321]

I don't think it's necessary, but I'm not sure that following a standardized path is necessarily missing the forest.

Meh, I think developing the judgment to know when something can kill you and taking appropriate mitigating steps vs following a protocol for "rules" sake is an important life lesson.

In my Cave2 we occasionally deviated from protocol which of course "escalated" the issue artificially. But in the debriefs we pushed back that we had accurately assessed the situation and made the right judgment call at the time. Both my buddy and myself knew the "book" way of doing it and we agree upon and chose an alternative choice on purpose.

I hope that GUE courses (overall) still value thinking, not just whatever the default protocol dictates. Sitting and waiting to get back on a stage which you breathed the whole way in, but has not been buddy verified for the exit is not thinking much to me.

Its not necessarily bad. But if you want me to do something and I'm not obvious getting to it, you should ask. In this case how much trouble is it to ask me to verify a stage? Like 3 seconds. I would gladly do it, but probably wouldn't think to do it spontaneously in this case.

 

[TSandM]

Actually, as soon as I looked up and saw what he was doing, I knew what he wanted. I would have made a bigger effort to look at him sooner, if I'd known he was going to sit and wait. We were actually specifically told in my C2 that it was unnecessary to verify switches onto and off of bottom stages. That has changed.

 

[PfcAJ]

I think its worth checking, even if you 'know' what's on you. Jim 'knew', also. It takes a couple seconds, not a big deal.

 

[rjack321]

I think its worth checking, even if you 'know' what's on you. Jim 'knew', also. It takes a couple seconds, not a big deal.

Well this past week our stages weren't marked. I know, the horror! But they were rentals and had the same 32% as our backgas (except when the fill station goofed and topped a 32% stage with air yielding ~26% which happened once or twice). I suppose we could have tracked down some Mexican duct tape and a fat sharpie somewhere. But it really didn't seem like a priority since checking each other's stages wouldn't have mattered at all. Absolutely, if we had multiple mixes or deco gases we would have labeled every stage.

Actually, as soon as I looked up and saw what he was doing, I knew what he wanted. I would have made a bigger effort to look at him sooner, if I'd known he was going to sit and wait. We were actually specifically told in my C2 that it was unnecessary to verify switches onto and off of bottom stages. That has changed.

No its always been that way, it least it was for Lamont and my classes, which pre-dated yours. I think David goofed. The whole issue seems relevant to the OP to me, because there's obviously this internet perception that GUE divers just do whatever they are taught forever without: 1) changing and/or 2) sticking with what they were taught because its working for them despite GUE changing (albit slowly).

 

[PfcAJ]

If I was involved in your pre-dive discussion, I bet my face would have been something like one of these two gentlemen in the below image.

 

[Oldbear]

If I was involved in your pre-dive discussion, I bet my face would have been something like one of these two gentlemen in the below image.

Now that is funny