GUE (DIR) compatibility with other personal goals (PADI DM/instructor)

[rlynch]

Hi everyone, looking for some thoughts and experiences.


Why am i posting this in the DIR area: I have been reading quite a bit about the philosophy of the GUE style of Doing it Right (some here but mostly focusing on Jarrod’s book, "Doing it right" the Fundamentals...
I personally connect with this philosophy of diving both personally, and professionally
for my personal dive goals GUE is a better match and a philosophy that create a safer more enjoyable outcome in the environment i like diving in (NC coast wrecks and offshore diving)

(i am a senior Global Test Mgr for a large Software company, I focus my teams on the fundamentals of testing systems rather than the flash of the next best already outdated shiny thing...)

Brief on my personal Education plan.

I am PADI Rescue certified currently and have been diving since 1988 (off/on, now since moving back to RDU i have been diving a lot more).


My Education Plan.
PADI Dive Master (~June 2011 start ?, if they have a class this summer at my LDS, I missed the in progress class due to a heavy Intl travel schedule) - reason: Improve my personal skillset, first step to teaching & mentoring new divers, the course looks fun.)

GUE Primer: August 2011 in High Springs - Reason: Prep for Fundamentals, skills, and expectation setting (mine..)

GUE Fundamentals: (fall 2011, depends on offerings, instructor, etc.)

PADI Instructor 2012 (Timing tbd..) reasoning: Enjoyment of teaching, semi-retirement plan for when my girls get out of school (~a long time yet)

My desire for PADI instructor: I want to teach, teach it right, and have people at the end of the course be A) safe B) confident C) enjoy the sport in a way that suits them. I plan of retiring somewhere warm and with plenty of diving eventually ( i travel quite a bit currently, and am seeking that perfect place.)

the conflict i am having is thus..

PADI and GUE serve very different purposes (at least at the PADI OW/AOW/Res levels) i will need to adjust my style from a GUE DIR style to an OW class's needs while bringing in the Fundamentals of GUE (namely emphasis on dive planning, situational awareness and buddy awareness that I feel is missing IMHO from PADI training. This may not be possible given the confines of the PADI education system, to the level i believe it should be.

My question: Am i out of bounds here thinking that i can follow both paths and create a better experience for future students within the confines of one of the largest certify organizations in the world?

At my Current LDS i can use the gear that suits me at an instructor level as long as it is a "shop" brand of course (luckily they are a halcyon dealer and very tech focused) but of course not every place is like this one.

Anyone else an active PADI instructor and a GUE diver?
Experiences/thoughts/etc.

 

[nadwidny]

I was a DIR diver until a couple of years ago then I went to diving a CC rebreather. So that takes away my DIR-ness. During my period as a DIR diver I was a "Not-PADI--But-Close-Enough" instructor until I decided to not renew any instructor credentials this year.

I found that the downside to being GUE trained and a "PADI"* instructor is that your skills and knowledge will probably be head and shoulders above the shop owner which will cause them to send "little penis syndrome" waves your way which is not conducive to long term employment with most shops.

(*NOTE- to PADI jihadists, please feel free to insert NAUI, SSI, SDI, ABC here. I left PADI in for brevity)

 

[nadwidny]

Oh, and I would do the GUE fundies, etc before any DM stuff. Fundies is about personal skills. DM, has nothing to do with personal skills.

 

[DevonDiver]

As a PADI instructor, there is a lot of flexibility to tailor certain courses to reflect DIR principles. PPB, Wreck, Cavern, Deep etc are good examples. These generally have very flexible definitions of the skills to be performed - especially in respect of buoyancy and propulsion. You just have to be careful to not add new 'standards' to the training. That means you can't run a pass/fail course like fundies. You can teach to a higher standard, but have to certify based on the PADI performance requirements.

The OW course is quite restrictive, as you cannot add extra drills and skills. The answer is to combine OW with other courses and/or more dives, so that you can include the stuff you feel is necessary. Getting students to pay for that extra training is the hard bit...

The other answer is to run non-certification workshops. I do this and it is very worthwhile. Of course, this doesn't lead to any certification - which may not appeal to divers who like to 'card collect' and judge the value of training purely on basis of the shiny plastic they will recieve afterwards. (just sell those types onto a Master Scuba Diver course LOL Just be aware that there can be liability/insurance issues with providing non-sanctioned training in some locations.

Here's an example of a workshop that I provide: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/trips-local-marketplace-philippines/384373-advanced-buoyancy-workshop-subic-bay-sat-4th-june-2011-a.html

The end situation is that you will be a PADI instructor... and will teach PADI courses. You have to tow the line with that. Once GUE trained, you will still have to accept that other divers won't be. They might not even agree with DIR philosophies or mindset. You have to accept that. They are the customer and you are the one getting paid. Don't let any ego drag you into over-zealous or preachy attitudes.

I found that the downside to being GUE trained and a "PADI"* instructor is that your skills and knowledge will probably be head and shoulders above the shop owner which will cause them to send "little penis syndrome" waves your way which is not conducive to long term employment with most shops.

And, again,... a warning about EGO...

 

[herman]

This could work IF YOU keep the DIR ego out of the picture. DIR is one way of diving and while the skill set is unquestionably great, the rest of the ideals are no where near the mainstream of diving, interjecting a DIR attitude into an OW class and "correcting" the instructor will get you off the DM list pretty quickly. You also have to realize this is a business and as such the business has to keep cost within a certain price point otherwise there will be no business.....and no place for you to instruct. Teaching DIR level buoyancy and trim to OW students in the limited timeframe you have is not practical, we all wish we could spend more time at it but it's just not possible.
Bottom line, diving in a BP/wing and DIR gear (plus a snorkel...PADI requirement) is not a problem, showing the students how a great diver should look under the water- fantastic but bringing a "I am DIR so I am better than you" attitude to the class will not go well....esp. if this the shop I think it is......the shop owner and manager are experienced tech divers/instructors as are many of the other staff members so taking DIR-F and getting a “better than you attitude” will get you shown up pretty fast.
Unless I miss my guess, the shop you are working with is who I DM for, drop me a PM and we can discuss this over a beer.

 

[randytay]

I am having the same problem. I am a PADI DMC, my instructor has already banned me from using my BP/W. His reason is that I would confuse the students. I am just agreeing with him so I can complete my DM course asap.

 

[Peter Guy]

During my DM program I got my Fundies Tech pass and NAUI (UTD) Helitrox. While a DM, I got my TDI Full Cave and during my IDC/IE experience, completed my NAUI Advanced EAN and Decompression programs. In other words, I paralleled programs -- PADI and Tech (although NOT GUE, heavily influenced by GUE instruction). There was some flack from my LDS but nothing I couldn't ignore -- down to, and including, after teaching for a while, leaving the LDS due to a conflict of teaching styles which eventually got resolved.

And now? Well, PADI has fully endorsed the OW teaching style as a result of Boulderjohn's efforts to create and get published by PADI the "neutral buoyancy" style of teaching. In addition, my LDS has fully endorsed the sequence of teaching that is heavily influenced by my DIR/Technical training for the OW class.

I believe there is a signficant misconception "out there" about what can be taught, and how it can be taught, in the PADI OW class. IF you just make your mind up to teach it "the right way" one can help create a very solid OW diver who understands the basics of "doing it right" without even knowing that! The key is for you, and your assistants, to all be on the same page -- to have good visuals for the students to model (and THAT is a problem because the PADI images are (currently) NOT "doing it right") which means you need to go out and get good visual models (they exist on YouTube or you can do your own videos).

I really can't think of any skills or information I am not able to present to my OW students that I believe (and here I depart from "others" who think "X" skill is crucial for an OW student) is necessary for them to be a good, solid BASIC open water diver. I admit, that sometimes I may have to liberally interpret some of the standards, but, hey, that's OK by me.

While there is some issue with equipment sometimes, that is, the typical LDS will have students in a jacket BC, secondary donate, to me that is NOT critical. There should be no reason NOT to let your students know about: a. Primary donate (for example, my LDS sells maybe 40% of its BCs with Air2s so the students really NEED to understand primary donate AND secondary donate) and I use an Air2 type rig in the pool so they learn both -- and the switch over to a "long hose" configuration is then trivial -- and, I might add, most see the value of primary donate very quickly; b. Hog rig -- this can be more of an issue but, again to me, is a trivial one since the students are shown the hog rig and I may even bring one to the pool for them to try (and those that try almost always believe it is much better than the jacket!) -- and I do ALL my OW dives in a standard Hog rig so the students do see it in action.

It is my firm belief way too much is made of the gear issues when comparing DIR with "other" since it ain't the gear that makes the significant difference, especially at the Open Water level.

 

[rjack321]

I would skip the DM for now. Take the Primer and Fundies, then reassess your goals and decide whether PADI DM/instructor is still what you want. I think there's way too many classes/instruction packed into the next ~year of your diving career and not enough focus on diving.

 

[randytay]

Peter, wished you were my PADI instructor for my DMC.

*oops, hope my instructor don't see this*

 

[matt_w]

I am having the same problem. I am a PADI DMC, my instructor has already banned me from using my BP/W. His reason is that I would confuse the students. I am just agreeing with him so I can complete my DM course asap.

I use a BC from the rental sets when I am in the pool and my BP/W at the lake. If you are demoing certain skills in the pool, there are some differences that might be confusing to new divers. The easiest way to remove your equipment under water in a BCD is different then with a one piece harness.