Had a disturbing incident yesterday...

[tracydr]

After the CT scan showed nothing, I saw a the hyperbaric Doc an hour ago......His take is that the only thing that makes sense is a temporal lobe seizure --brought on by Oxygen toxicity --even though it was only a 100 to 110 foot dive, and I was on 33% nitrox, his experience with car accident victims they put in the chamber ( for burns, healing, whatever) are that sometimes the brain injuries will cause an ox tox event that triggers this temporal lobe seizure...and the memory lapse issue is a typical result of these.

He said if I had done the wreck on air, I probably would not have had any problems.....which is not to say he is giving me the green light to a 100 foot air dive ....now I need to see a neurologist, after I call DAN and chat with them over this....

So some of the idle thoughts bouncing around my in my head now....We know that high oxygen mixes ( Nitrox) will create super oxide free radicals in higher percentages than are ideal for our body/brains.....and that perhaps very high levels could precipitate an ox tox event... It would be my assumption that this is a chemical imbalance/poor equilibrium, as a result of the physical trauma of the crash 2 months ago....While the CT Scan shows no damage, it is not showing chemical equilibriums.....The blood work ups the Del Ray Trauma Ctr did showed nothing, but I am pretty sure this was just ;ooking for clotting issues, and nothing that would relate to the chemistry that would precede a temporal lobe seizure.

I would expect I will be "better", sooner, if I start supplementing more heavily with astaxanthin, with High Gamma Vitamin E, and maybe some High DHA Omega 3's...hoping this would help restore the proper equilibriums in my brain. I have also hear super oxide dismutase is effective for this, but it is one supplement I have never tried.

Any suggestions?

I suspect that a seizure is more likely caused by electric issues, possibly caused by swelling or other brain injury. Its not uncommon to have seizures after a concussion and you don't have to be knocked out to have traumatic brain injury

 

[lionfish-eater]

Dan I understand the loss of memory about the truck and the boat loading, but surely you remember the $200 bucks I loaned you, right? One solution would be to video all your activities and then watch them later to see if there is anything you forgot. Denial and wishful thinking are always a better choice than sound medical advise. Maybe a chamber ride could reproduce the symptoms and they could then examine your brain. If that has no effect, the next experiment to perform would involve a tumble and a smack to the head to duplicate the fall. Good luck.

 

[danvolker]

Dan I understand the loss of memory about the truck and the boat loading, but surely you remember the $200 bucks I loaned you, right? One solution would be to video all your activities and then watch them later to see if there is anything you forgot. Denial and wishful thinking are always a better choice than sound medical advise. Maybe a chamber ride could reproduce the symptoms and they could then examine your brain. If that has no effect, the next experiment to perform would involve a tumble and a smack to the head to duplicate the fall. Good luck.

It's great having good friends that want to help Sandra has already offered to hit me in the head, several times if needed.
As to the $200, isn't it amazing how I can't remember anything about this ? Guess you will just have to hang on until I remember it

---------- Post added September 4th, 2013 at 12:22 PM ----------

I suspect that a seizure is more likely caused by electric issues, possibly caused by swelling or other brain injury. Its not uncommon to have seizures after a concussion and you don't have to be knocked out to have traumatic brain injury

I would love it if you would mull over the long post I just made to Charpai....with all of the "post concussion chemical aspects" I am bringing up as an alternative to the knee-jerk reaction of automatically assuming this is a chronic condition....and not to forget, there is only small evidence that a concussion occurred.... I experienced no concussion symptoms of any kind after my bike crash... only the crystals getting knocked out of the proper position in the middle ear....Maybe it was a mild concussion, with very mild chemical alterations that exaggerated the effects of a ketosis producing breakfast many hours preceding the dive..and the effects of high aerobic workload at depth, high CO2 levels at depth....low blood sugar for brain fuel....etc.

 

[lowviz]

Dan, were you on any seasickness meds?

 

[danvolker]

Dan, were you on any seasickness meds?

No...that would have been totally on point if I had....

 

[lowviz]

Wow, I'm clueless then.

For anyone "double patching": Qualitative analysis of scopolamine-induced amnesia - Springer

 

[Shasta_man]

Hold it a second... you say you had a crash off your bike and head injury at 30 MPH, then went diving and others pointed out strange behavior and memory lapses... and so you first came here to consult with us on Scubaboard?!!! DAN, MAN, GO GET SOME REAL HELP! I mean, yes, we are all experts, in our own minds, and have lots to say but I'm STARTING to think you're valuing us a little too much...

 

[boulderjohn]

I am not a doctor, but I would not discount the possibility that the event may not have had anything to do with either the accident or the diving.

A very close friend was doing some gardening with relatives and suddenly started acting a little strange. They were concerned and took her to the hospital. When there, she had no memory of having gotten there. She was totally aware that she was in a hospital and that she was having memory issues, though--but only while it was happening. She could not remember it later. . The strangest things was that she kept repeating herself over and over again. She would ask the same question repeatedly. Before too long she recovered completely, with no memory of any of what had happened. The diagnosis was transient global amnesia.

About two years ago there was a thread on ScubaBoard about another TGA incident. Two divers were doing a very basic recreational dive, with nothing of note happening whatsoever. When they surfaced, one of them started looking around, very confused. He had no memory of the events leading up to his surfacing. He was quite surprised to find himself in the water in scuba gear having completed a dive. Again, the diagnosis was transient global amnesia.

As I understand it, TGA has no clearly known cause. If you had that, it may have had absolutely nothing to do with any of the preceding events you described. They could be just coincidences. TGA also has no long term consequences.

 

[danvolker]

Hold it a second... you say you had a crash off your bike and head injury at 30 MPH, then went diving and others pointed out strange behavior and memory lapses... and so you first came here to consult with us on Scubaboard?!!! DAN, MAN, GO GET SOME REAL HELP! I mean, yes, we are all experts, in our own minds, and have lots to say but I'm STARTING to think you're valuing us a little too much...

The crash was on July 14th....I went through all the normal crash recovery procedures cyclists involved in racing get familiar with...Plus the new K laser treatment to cut the healing time in half or maybe even a quarter on the cracked rib, and the healing of the major road rash....this is new tech that is amazing!!!
If I had been playing football in Highschool or college, and had a concussion, by now doctors would have released me to play ball again.
I had no symptoms of a concussion, except for the crystal issue that required re-alignment of the crystals.... I had never even known anyone that had this from a bike crash--or any other kind of crash, so if you are familiar with this, then you are one up on where I was

So when I did this dive, I really should not have been expecting an incident....and as my search for knowledge about the brain chemistry that "could" create this memory loss develops, I am getting less and less convinced that post concussion issues were the "Major" part of the incident...and that the bigger contributors may well have been high CO2 levels at 110 feet from swimming after the jewfish, from holding breath on still shots right after exertions, and from a zero carb and egg only breakfast 4 hours previous to the dive.....With higher than normal cortisol levels, low blood sugar from poor structured meal planning for the dive day....higher than normal blood sugar demands for the aerobic level work on the dive, and the sugar/fuel demands of a even a mild post concussive brain chemistry, I think a lot was in play that would have made this much more likely to be FUEL and ACTIVITY LEVEL related, WORSENED BY HIGH CO2 levels....and this is NOTHING like what the Hyperbaric Doc came up with---He spent all of 2.5 minutes thinking about 3% of the possible issues which were clearly related to this incident..... I think he was considering some of the issues that were important, but even if he was a genius with an IQ of 200, I think he would have needed at least 10 more minutes to work up more of the possibilities, and then begin narrowing them down. I am certain he was not allowed this amount of time by his schedule....and this is all the more reason for ME to come here....I want to leverage the brain trust of the best medical minds on Scubaboard, and the NEXT time I sit down with a Neurologist, I want to have 2 or three well conceived scenarios that I could discuss with him in depth....I want to give this doc the best "leg-up" on the mystery of this incident, as is possible.

---------- Post added September 4th, 2013 at 06:44 PM ----------

I am not a doctor, but I would not discount the possibility that the event may not have had anything to do with either the accident or the diving.

A very close friend was doing some gardening with relatives and suddenly started acting a little strange. They were concerned and took her to the hospital. When there, she had no memory of having gotten there. She was totally aware that she was in a hospital and that she was having memory issues, though--but only while it was happening. She could not remember it later. . The strangest things was that she kept repeating herself over and over again. She would ask the same question repeatedly. Before too long she recovered completely, with no memory of any of what had happened. The diagnosis was transient global amnesia.

About two years ago there was a thread on ScubaBoard about another TGA incident. Two divers were doing a very basic recreational dive, with nothing of note happening whatsoever. When they surfaced, one of them started looking around, very confused. He had no memory of the events leading up to his surfacing. He was quite surprised to find himself in the water in scuba gear having completed a dive. Again, the diagnosis was transient global amnesia.

As I understand it, TGA has no clearly known cause. If you had that, it may have had absolutely nothing to do with any of the preceding events you described. They could be just coincidences. TGA also has no long term consequences.

Thanks John,
That is one piece of information that will be going with me whenever I schedule to see a neurologist

 

[Duke Dive Medicine]

Dan,

I'm trying to send you a PM but it's not going through. Can you PM me an email address?

Best regards,
DDM