Halcyon Backplate Question

[MarcHall]

Perhaps I'm just underpowered... I don't use any extra weight other than the 6# SS backplate (and maybe a pound for the light canister) with the double 104s and EAN32.

As for diving in the ocean... yes, I am counting on my wing, drysuit, buddy and liftbag.

Uncle Pug

Your system is not balanced. You should be able to swim your system to the suface without gas in wings or the ability to add
gas to your drysuit.

One solution would be to switch to an AL backplate and if additional weight is needed add it in a ditchable location.

Marc Hall
www.enjoythedive.com

 

[jonnythan]

I fail to see how ditching weight at 100 feet in the ocean is a solution to anything.

 

[d33ps1x]

you really have to be careful what you say these days.. now you will have all kinds of monkeys going out and buying huge wings... let's hope they understand why rather than who.

Yes. We all wait anxiously for every word and suggestion Vadim.

All us monkeys...

 

[d33ps1x]

I fail to see how ditching weight at 100 feet in the ocean is a solution to anything.

Why is that Jonnythan? You sound completely sure but curiosity prevails and enquiring minds wish to know.

 

[jonnythan]

Ideally you're going to be weighted perfectly to compensate for the weight of the gas in your tanks. If you're carrying that much weight, ditching it at 100 feet will mean the complete inability to control your ascent when your tanks start getting low, and that would be bad. In the event of a total BC failure, the answer isn't to ditch weight you need to stay down, it's to use a backup source of buoyancy.

 

[VTernovski]

Yes. We all wait anxiously for every word and suggestion Vadim.

All us monkeys...

well, when UnclePug himself, the MAN!, says that he would rather use 70lb wing over 55lb, doesn't this send out a wrong message to people who just imitating what the big shots are doing without giving it much thought? what am I not right? how many folks reading stuff on the net trying to copy things without any of their own brains in place. I am sorry you think that I was referring to you,.. but I amglad you said that, and not me. :monkeydan

 

[d33ps1x]

well, when UnclePug himself, the MAN!, says that he would rather use 70lb wing over 55lb, doesn't this send out a wrong message to people who just imitating what the big shots are doing without giving it much thought? what am I not right? how many folks reading stuff on the net trying to copy things without any of their own brains in place. I am sorry you think that I was referring to you,.. but I amglad you said that, and not me. :monkeydan

You are right. People will imitate without questioning and this is dangerous.

Not everyone is so mindless though. Which is why I bothered to ask Jonnythan to give reasoning for his strong opinion regarding ditchable weight. To confirm he had one.

Anyone can spew a one sentence answer and come off suggesting they have a brain.

Whether you end up being right or wrong, explaining yourself confirms it and shows you are thinking which is a start. Right?

 

[VTernovski]

You are right. People will imitate without questioning and this is dangerous.

Not everyone is so mindless though. Which is why I bothered to ask Jonnythan to give reasoning for his strong opinion regarding ditchable weight. To confirm he had one.

Anyone can spew a one sentence answer and come off suggesting they have a brain.

Whether you end up being right or wrong, explaining yourself confirms it and shows you are thinking which is a start. Right?

ok, agreed. :icecream1

 

[joe_at_subtidal]

Ideally you're going to be weighted perfectly to compensate for the weight of the gas in your tanks. If you're carrying that much weight, ditching it at 100 feet will mean the complete inability to control your ascent when your tanks start getting low, and that would be bad. In the event of a total BC failure, the answer isn't to ditch weight you need to stay down, it's to use a backup source of buoyancy.

When a buoynacy failure occurs at the beginning of the dive, your tanks are full and you are at your heaviest. In this case, if you were to ditch the right amount of weight, you'd be able to swim the tanks up, and still not shoot to the surface, as the weight of the gas would offset the loss in weight.

I agree that if you ditched your weight at the end of the dive, when your tanks were near empty, you'd have difficulty staying down. . .but then you wouldn't have trouble swimming them up. So you wouldn't necessarily need to ditch the weight in that case.

Ultimately, when given the choice between being bent on the surface or running out of gas on the bottom and overweighted, I know which one I'd choose. "Bent" is treateable. "Drowning and dead" is not.

Be carefully when subscribing to things like "backup buoyancy". The big picture is to strive for a balanced system. Redundant bladders are unnecessarily complicated, and I've never tried using a lift bag for buoyancy on an ascent; I can only imagine the issues. Using your buddy as a buoyancy device works fine until you get separated,and they shoot to the surface while you plummet to the depths. Having a balanced system means you ought to be able to avoid all of these unsavory examples. Howeverm, if you are relying on emergency tools to get you out of a hairy situation, be sure to practice them (in a safe environment) prior to relying on them.

Joe Talavera

 

[jonnythan]

Backup buoyancy = drysuit. Ditching weight with a wetsuit is a total non-option becaue there is no chance you'd be able to control an ascent with neoprene. There are other ways to get to the surface than "missle-like."