Has anybody heard what happened to the inspiration diver.....

[fins wake]

I'm just going by facts now...

It would be good if you did, Mverick.

Just jumping on everyone's bandwagon they jumped on me about. Cause I haven't seen anybody present evidence on anything...

This is becoming very metaphysical, like the sort of arguments theologians had in the Middle Ages, how many angels can you fit on a pin-head and so forth. Or, what is dangerous, by Webster's or the OED ... or what constitutes evidence to Mr Mverick.

Fins wake on deaths was wrong. I know of ones that have been published that he didn't include. But you look it up. He's just saying what he knows. How do we know he isn't lying.

Ah, now we're talking! Whoooaaah!

Well, as a matter you don't. I might be a pathological liar, or suffering from Münchhausen's or some other mania. Or I might have a hidden agenda. Heck, I might even be bought by APD (I wish ... that would pay for my diving, it's an expensive hobby when you do it a lot, you know).

You'll just have to trust me when I say I'm not, I'm just interested in accident reports to prevent future ones. (Don't you actually read any of my posts, Mverick?)

Now, more seriously, how was I wrong? Are you implying that there are rebreather deaths on other makes that I haven't listed? Well, you're absolutely right. I don't see how this makes me wrong, though?

Are you implying there are other Inspiration fatalities that I don't know of and haven't listed, i.e. more than 17?

I've seen figures of 20, even 30 on certain boards. Let me just say that the threads in question are not worth the bits and bytes they're transmitted on. All of these exaggerated claims have been proven false. And you're talking of people lying? You've got some cheek, laddie! And no apologies from me for stating that! :upset:

Now, I'm off in half an hour to actually do some diving. When I get back tonigh (our time), I expect you to list the Inspiration deaths that I somehow have omitted. That can't be too hard, can it? You've got plenty of time to deliver.

wish everyone here would post what they KNOW. And not what they THINK. That's what I try to do.

... and fail miserably.

K.
/who doesn't take kindly to being called a liar, and who's getting bored with the soapboard rantings on "dangerousness"/

 

[madmole]

"Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
Otto von Bismarck

"And the DIR have nothing else to learn!"

Sorry, couldn't resist!!!

 

[caveseeker7]

madmole once bubbled...(a long time ago, when he was still diving OC)

"And the DIR have nothing else to learn!"

Sorry, couldn't resist!!!

I'm glad you couldn't ...
(although modesty comes to mind as something to learn for them )

About time somebody broke that bickering and tension.
Take it easy, guys, not each other's head off. Ain't worth it.
Nor are personal attacks and name calling.

Important point here is:
Diver went solo and didn't come back.
So maybe solo wasn't such a good idea, no matter what gear he used.

Anyway, that Clintonesque debating of a single word is getting pretty old ...

 

[Mverick]

Once again, on the Word Dangerous. If you read the examples in the post from Saturated. They all go to

Dangerous is an all encomposing word.

All of the definitions state the same. If you'd actually read the examples.

Fins awake . Hey I'd like to see the documentation of the deaths you've reported.

I know of others. But it's second hand. Of people who where there when the diver was using the RB. Attended the funeral. Dive RB's themselves.

But that info isn't good enough. Remember.. So I'm not posting on what kind of RB. Or anything about it. But I do know your wrong.

As for lying, you're posting info you have NO info on. Or, have provided NO info on. Provide some Info. Other then just what you've heard. Since I can't do it. You can't either... Something we can Verify????

madmole I just saw on your website that you bought your Inspiration RB in 6/02. It's 5/03 now. Maybe you mis posted it on your website. Not alot of experience to be quoting so much info on it.

I don't dive a RB. I have 2 I'm building. I don't think there death traps. I haven't lied about anything. And my info was always correct. Unless I asked a question about it. That's why I asked a question!!!!!!

Some of you have a DIR mentality. I dive semi DIR. Because I feel it's safer. Probably safest to dive DIR. But I assume the extra small risk.

That's the whole point of the word Dangerous. You can't make it into your own word. It has a definition. That's been stated 4 times.

So yes, Diving is dangerous.

From madmole

"I dont care a hoot if you trust me or not. I present the information I have available and its up to you to draw your own conclusions. Thats why I differentiate my feelings and where possible the source of each of the elements on my site."

Well on your site you say one diver died from stupidity. Your feelings aren't contributing to that statement?

And in none of the definitions from Websters is there a "likely". That are easily found in print. You have to quote the right definition. One that can be verified.

From Saturated

Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.


dangerous

\Dan"ger*ous\, a. [OE., haughty, difficult, dangerous, fr. OF. dangereus, F. dangereux. See Danger.] 1. Attended or beset with danger; full of risk; perilous; hazardous; unsafe.


Our troops set forth to-morrow; stay with us; The ways are dangerous. --Shak.

It is dangerous to assert a negative. --Macaulay.

2. Causing danger; ready to do harm or injury.

If they incline to think you dangerous To less than gods. --Milton.

3. In a condition of danger, as from illness; threatened with death. [Colloq.] --Forby. Bartlett.

4. Hard to suit; difficult to please. [Obs.]

My wages ben full strait, and eke full small; My lord to me is hard and dangerous. --Chaucer.

5. Reserved; not affable. [Obs.] ``Of his speech dangerous.'' --Chaucer. -- Dan\"ger*ous*ly, adv. -- Dan\"ger*ous*ness, n.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.




And mine

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=dangerous


Where is the likely??????

And fins awake spouted
"This is becoming very metaphysical, like the sort of arguments theologians had in the Middle Ages, how many angels can you fit on a pin-head and so forth. Or, what is dangerous, by Webster's or the OED ... or what constitutes evidence to Mr Mverick."

Gee, I'm going by what constitutes evidence per you all. Shows how ridiculous it is doesn't it. If it can't be verified you shouldn't bring it up>>>>> And a definition of a word is a definition. You don't build your own meaning into a word. How would others understand what you meant????

 

[madmole]

I suggest you read the home page second paragraph of my website then Mverick

FYI, I have owned a rebreather since 1984 (ex Royal Navy O2 unit) Bloody Dangerous contraption whatever way you define the word

 

[Mverick]

I'll just post it


Second paragraph from madmoles site..

"I am not the most experienced Inspiration user out there, But when I got my ccr I found there were little bits of information all over the web, but none was what I was looking for. I will attempt to capture it all here. Of course to do that I will need your help. Tell me what's good, bad or downright ugly, send me articles, pictures, in fact anything you want"

 

[madmole]

I also get a lot of help from Dave Thompson, Bob Howell, Martin Parker, Gordon Henderson, Joe Radonskli (padiscubapro) and a cast of thousands who send me stuff and more info. I try to acknowledge what comes from who

To all those that help out a big thanks

Most of what I have posted has been because folks asked for it. I try to cator for the non Inspiration owner who is looking prior to buying and the new Inspiration who wants to know things like, how to change the wing etc. Then of course I like modifying things. Plus Martin very kindly lets me host all the APD parts diagrams and manuals etc

 

[Tigerscuba]

Madmole thanks for all the volunteer work, all that must take some time. Been to your site quite abit. Keep up the good work.

 

[fins wake]

Fins awake . Hey I'd like to see the documentation of the deaths you've reported.

Well, which ones? The Inspiration ones? They're one Diver Mole's web site. I've found no others. Anywhere. And I've been checking for years. Period.

As for the others, you'll have to brush up your Afrikaans, Portuguese and go 'down under' a bit as well ... there's enough hints for you, wise guy. Oh, you'll find your English skills are enough - or maybe not. But then it won't be down to the sources ...

I know of others. But it's second hand.

Or third or fourth hand, or perhaps made up?

So I'm not posting on what kind of RB. Or anything about it.

Well, gee, thanks. That's worming out of it nicely? One rule for us, and one for you? It does answer the query I put before my dive today, though. Sort of. Well, not the question itself, but it does give a hint to accuracy and honesty. (And before you all ask, yes, it was a nice relaxed dive, perfectly safe, enjoyed it a lot.)

But I do know your wrong.

Well, doesn't matter what you or I think, just what the independent observer can deduce from our scribblings. The rest is easy. Yahoo is an amazingly strong instrument of deduction. If you want it to be. The truth, amazingly, is out there ...

Some of you have a DIR mentality. I dive semi DIR. Because I feel it's safer. Probably safest to dive DIR.

To each his own. But you're not allowed to dive a CCR as a DIR diver so ...

I don't dive a RB. I have 2 I'm building.

... I simply have to wish you the best of luck. As for your first statement, that much was obvious.

And a definition of a word is a definition. You don't build your own meaning into a word. How would others understand what you meant????

Let's not get into semantics (although take it from somebody who spent a couple of years studying it: you do build your own meaning into a word). Let's just say that in the light of your posts your last statement actually makes some sense ...

And my info was always correct.

At this stage, I'm slightly less inclined to accept that than I might previously have been.

Now, I've read all the posts, and I'm actually not the bickering type, nor have I anything to gain by biting somebody's head off (although it is tempting in some cases). Honest, guv' ...

... so I'll keep my councel forthwith. Just allow me to say that I do understand Lisa and her position. Considering the circumstances, I think she's argued her position intelligently and with passion and I respect her for it. If I have taken an opposite view - and I have - it is purely for the sake of objectivity in evaluating future Inspiration diving, that's all. I do respect her and her postings and I deeply regret her loss.

Lisa, if you're out there, this was never against you personally! I disagree with some of your points, but I do respect your stance. Bionn dha insint ar sceal agus dha leagan deag ar amhran.

The rest, Mverick, is silence. If you get my drift. Which you probably will, if and when you finally get your two RB:s finished and start diving them.

For now, there's no further reason for me to be APD:s bulldog. More diplomatic divers will - or maybe won't - attempt that, when and if they realize that it's a case of defending RB diving and not merely Inspiration diving. Time will tell.

For now, cheerio, I shan't be posting for a while. Slainte go saol agat.

K.:wave:

 

[Mverick]

Oh, Fins Wake don't go....

Cause you've posted absolutely zero usefull verifiable info... In all of your posts.... All you've done is argue my posts... With nothing to back it up.... Or qoute stuff off of madmoles site...

Keep searchin on yahoo. Cause there isn't alot of fresh info there. It takes awile to get to the search engines...

For the incidents you qouted YOU provided no verifiable evidence. What's up with that???? That's what you asked me to do isn't it????


And madmole actually does back up his statements with facts... Just thought from the way you talked about the Inspiration you had been diving it longer. And he has a huge amount of time spent working on the Inspiration and tinkering with it. You can tell from his sight.. Cause there's alot of info there.

But now you know how it feels to be questioned 1000 times on stuff you know to be true.