Have not seen this done before!

[Gareth J]

Try doing it from tables when you are just being exposed to Nitrox. SDI still teaches OW using tables. Trying to keep the two straight while figuring out multiple dives with varying SI's and some gotcha's thrown in - just to make sure you understand. Yeah. Thats too complicated to throw at a noob. They have enough trouble trying to master the physical skills. They don't need additional mental stuff thrown in.

OW card is just a learners permit. No additional task loading should be added until the critical skills of OW have been mastered. If, as has been posted above, people woking at a facility sometimes fill a nitrox tank with air, an air tank with nitrox, and don't get the gas mixes correct, what do you think is going to happen to someone who got nitrox on the fly during OW? Hell the training has gotten superficial enough and you want to add more material to be breezed through. Bad idea!

Interestingly, we've been teaching Nitrox as part of the entry course for a number of years (British Sub Aqua Club).
At Ocean Diver (Entry) you learn about Nitrogen, Oxygen, Air, Nitrox, and managing Nitrogen on an Air table (and Computer). You also learn that any ascent after a dive is about controlling the Nitrogen (controlled decompression).
At this level they only have the one table to learn.
At Sports Diver (a cross of AOW and Rescue Diver). This is the point that you learn to use a Nitrox tables, and other 'Nitrox Issues' (you will qualify with a 35m (115ft) decompression ticket). This is where you also learn about staged decompression.

Interestingly, Its not really been an issue for the students.
In simple terms they learn that are a number of gases you could breath. they have pros's and con's, which are covered in more depth in later qualifications (The third level up introduces the concept although not the use of Trimix).

One thing that has been noticeable, and was really the same when it was only air - but no stop diving at Ocean Diver, and staged decompression at Sports Diver. Is that students do really need the reinforcement of the second qualification when it comes to tables, decompression theory and Nitrogen.
That said, its the same with the PADI cross overs we get. There is a significant lack of understanding about tables and decompression going into the Sports Diver course. Then, a noticeable better understanding after they finish.

One other point to note. Although Ocean Diver is a full diving qualification - basically PADI OW. Clubs ensure members at least progress through Sports Diver. Most clubs don't regard the Ocean Diver qualification as a sufficient level for club diving. Ocean divers are managed by the club, normally diving with very experienced Sports Divers, Dive Leaders (DM), or Instructors. Under controlled environments, Ocean Divers are encouraged to dive together.

 

[boulderjohn]

SDI still teaches OW using tables.

Are you sure? I am not a SDI instructor, but I thought SDI was the very first major agency to go to computer training for OW. They sure took a lot of heat on ScubaBoard for that about a decade or so ago.

 

[Joneill]

Never heard of a MOD, Ox Tox, or CNS at rec depths. Certainly not at 60' and less.

So... given that, how is Nitrox a real complex issue for a new rec diver then?

So you're saying an OW student is a rec diver with a reasonable understanding of the fundamentals? Nah! Add do all/most OW students have a properly programmed dive computer (and know how to use it)? Nah

Argument for arguments sake ==> Ignore

Good for you - very mature approach: if you don't agree or like someone else's opinion, you just ignore them!

My point was that you are making Nitrox out to be some incredibly complicated thing when, in reality, it is not ...and, yes, I would expect even a new diver would have a reasonable understanding of the concepts of diving and Nitrox is really just a minor extension to that. To each his own, but I took Nitrox (and PPB) right after OW cert and dive #14 was my first dive on Nitrox - really easy concepts and in my opinion, someone who can't understand them, never bothered to understand the risks of diving in general - diving on air can kill you too![/QUOTE]

 

[John Bantin]

Does everyone appreciate that Air is nitrox21 with its own MOD? If there is a moratorium on diving no deeper than 100ft (30m) nobody should get into trouble using nitrox32 and be safer from DCI if they keep to an air setting on their computer.

 

[tursiops]

Are you sure? I am not a SDI instructor, but I thought SDI was the very first major agency to go to computer training for OW. They sure took a lot of heat on ScubaBoard for that about a decade or so ago.

This is correct.

 

[ChuckP]

I think most of you may be too far removed from OW. What percentage of divers complete less than 20 dives a year?

A touch of classroom, a few dips in the pool and four open water dives and you can be king of the ocean. New OW card holders have way too many things to master let alone adding nitrox and the confusion of mod, cns etc - IMO

Let them sort the bugs out, see if it’s something they want to do and then start teaching more refining things.

 

[Altamira]

I think we all agree that a Nitrox course is necessary for ongoing use of Nitrox in a wide variety of diving environments to enable the user to understand the intricacies and pitfalls of the various mixes. We can also disagree as to how in-depth or complex such a course needs to be for the typical OW/AOW diver. While I was surprised Top Dive gave Nitrox to divers lacking the cert, primarily because I had never seen it done before, I do not feel it was dangerous or unsafe in those specific dive environments in which it was used for our group in Fakarava and Bora Bora. At a max possible depth of 70', a dive time that did not exceed 56 minutes, divers that would only be doing a maximum of two dives/day, and with appropriate SIs, the divers would not have had issues on Air or Nitrox 32/35 on any of the dives. If I had felt the dives were going to be potentially dangerous because of the Nitrox issue, I would have, at a minimum, warned our groups' divers of my thoughts. Do I think theTop Dive ops could have given the divers more information on the use and issues of Nitrox, insured each diver knew how to use and interpret the computers issued, and emphasized the need to take a formal course? Yes, of course. Given the exact dive environment, would I do anything different if I got a "re-do" on those dives? No, but I am sure others may differ in their opinion on that.

 

[GetDownScuba]

I was in T&C in February. My buddy, who lacked situational awareness and buoyancy control, was hanging around 90' along the wall for longer than I cared for (despite my repeated attempts to get him to ascend and stay w/me at 70'). As I was explaining to him during the surface interval that he basically blew our second dive, the mate offered us EANx for Dive #2 for an extra $5. I explained that my buddy wasn't EANx certified. Mate's reply - no problem, but it will be $15 for him. LOL. I passed and suggested that we just hang on the shelf for Dive 2, which we did. Saw a bunch of silkies so not a total loss.

 

[stuartv]

SDI still teaches OW using tables.

SDI teaches computer use. SDI requires a dive computer. SDI OW divers are only certified to dive with a computer.

An SDI instructor has the option to teach tables as well, if they want to go above and beyond the standards.

 

[Steve_C]

Did SDI OW a little over 10 years ago. We learned computers. We also used tables. Took SDI nitrox shortly after. It comes with a table. That is the one table I use for dive planning. It has a 1.4 and 1.6 table at the bottom. I added a 1.3 for my own use. I tend to be conservative on MOD.