Have training standards "slipped"?

[neil]

Naturally I disagree. The whole concept of OW recreational diving is based on the surface always being accessible. A CESA is a viable and effective means of reaching the surface.

With reasonable class sizes and some prior planning, I don't think it's too harsh on the instructor either.

I agree with that.
Class size is critical. During a NAUI course a student must make the following ascents:
1 as donor in OOA
1 as receiver in OOA
1 ESA
1 recovery of unconscious diver.

Even if you incorporate those skills into the normal ascent from a dive, it makes a lot of up and down over 4 dives for an unassisted instructor. Better if spread out over 5 dives and with a good assistant or two.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I saw a few interesting things at the quarry this weekend.
The first was (apparently) an instructor with a student -- both were positively dog-paddling, bouncing off the bottom...
The second was an instructor with a bunch of students going over lost buddy procedures. Step 1 was "Kneel on the bottom and look around for one minute..."
...because kneeling on the bottom, kicking up clouds of silt, will certainly help you find your lost buddy by quickly improving the vis!

:shakehead

 

[Tigerman]

I saw a few interesting things at the quarry this weekend.
The first was (apparently) an instructor with a student -- both were positively dog-paddling, bouncing off the bottom...
The second was an instructor with a bunch of students going over lost buddy procedures. Step 1 was "Kneel on the bottom and look around for one minute..."
...because kneeling on the bottom, kicking up clouds of silt, will certainly help you find your lost buddy by quickly improving the vis!

:shakehead

Yeah, and if its a bit rocky, youll also be having such an advantage if youre sitting at the bottomn. That rock thats blocking your view magically disappear if you just imagine its not there...

Nope, wasnt taught to go sit at the bottomn if I lost my buddy..

 

[Mako Mark]

No, it teaches them to go to the surface FIRST.
.

Er, not really, it teaches them to go to the surface using the CESA as only the third option behind normal ascent and Alternate air source ascent

It simply does not make sense to me. A rapid rise to the surface done 2-8 times in a row goes against EVERYTHING we teach about safe ascents. I think it should be done horizontally in the pool and then more time spent on buddy and gas management. .

I totally agree, but it is not the student that is doing this, it is the instructor and that is a totally different kettle of fish

Didn't Australia PADI stop that as a requirement because they had associated it with increased incidences of DCS in instuctors doing it with multiple students?

When I was teaching in OZ we would take classes of 16 to OW (double diving two groups of eight) there was serious concern as rarely does a class all get the CESA on the first attempt. As instructors we were often doing 20 CESAs in a morning.

We came up with a number of solutions:

Team teaching The CESAs

We got a waiver from PADI to teach it from 9-3 meters thus avioding the last three meters.

We would "fail" to complete the skill with half the group on the first day, and have to catch up the skill the next day. Common practice of this eventually led to PADI making CESA a dive flexible skill.

There is simply NO EXCUSE for running out of air or out of buddy anymore.

BTW, it has NOTHING to do with my ears, but I have to say that I feel WAY MORE TIRED after doing this skill set then after any other training dive. I am certain we expose ourselves to subclinical DCS by doing this.

I agree on both points, I personally have NEVER had to do an emergency ascent because I ran out of air and only once had a student that required it because of a ruptured LP hose at depth.

 

[Thalassamania]

I agree with Mark completely.

 

[Mako Mark]

I agree with Mark completely.

OMG,

I think hell just froze over...

 

[Thalassamania]

OMG,

I think hell just froze over...

When you're right, you're right. Please see to it that it doesn't happen too often.

 

[neil]

OMG,

I think hell just froze over...

I'm sure I saw a pig fly by.

 

[freediver]

Just saw the strangest thing....a pig shot straight up from hell...flew overhead wearing snowshoes and an overcoat! Any idea what's goin' on?

 

[The Chairman]

C'mon guys... what do think is going to happen if he ever agrees with ME???