Have training standards "slipped"?

[Doubles]

Look at the 70,000 members of this board -- Most of them don't post. Most of them join because they're going to take a class, or have just taken a class

Just curious if you have taken a survey or are you making an assumption about why the majority of folks who do not post became SB members?

It would be interesting to see how many times a month these 70,000 members actually login to SB?

Cheers

-s

 

[D_B]

... Although we may get very tired of these repeated long threads about training standards, I think they have significant value. Look at the 70,000 members of this board -- Most of them don't post. Most of them join because they're going to take a class, or have just taken a class. ScubaBoard may be the first place where they read something that makes them think about whether they should be better at what they're doing. Look at the threads from new divers saying, "What skills should I practice?" We're making people think.

Thats me, I lurked here right after I got certified .. I joined later and asked questions ... I bet many do like I did and just browse the forums before they do join

 

[Mako Mark]

Waffle? Are you mad? ..

No, not mad,

Speaking of facts, Have you actually read Hardin's article?

yes I have read the article, that is how I could use it as an example, have you?

Are you aware that subsequent to the 1968 piece in Science he said it would have better titled, "The Tragedy of the Unregulated Commons." ..

stop getting Wiki on us, the commons are the commons and have always been unregulated, that is why they are called commons. So what if Hardin, after publication found out that many people around the world were not familliar with the what an English "Common"" was.

In point of fact, Hardin's essay actually makes my case better than yours..

How so?? you stated that giving instructors more flexibility would make for better courses. I dissagree, I think that if you give more flexibility to instructors they will make it more easy on themselves do the minimum and no more. It is human nature to make it easier on themselves and this, is the "tradegy of the commons", and the reason for the 480 odd posts in this thread.

The possibility of selecting the worst materials, most readily available, or cheapest is regulated by minimum standards, a rigorous Instructor Training program, and (corny as it sounds) a credo that is actually lived, rather than reliance on the unregulated avarice of the publisher of one specific set of materials who has a completely captive and beholden audience.

Now this is just semantic smoke and mirrors, and probably a poorly disguised troll.

There is no captive audience, you can choose whatever agency you like.

 

[Thalassamania]

No, not mad.

If not mad then what?

yes I have read the article, that is how I could use it as an example, have you?

Your clear lack of conversancy with it's actual content made me quite sure that all you had done is peruse a summary such as that found on wiki for example.

stop getting Wiki on us, the commons are the commons and have always been unregulated, that is why they are called commons. So what if Hardin, after publication found out that many people around the world were not familliar with the what an English "Common"" was.

Ah, so it was just Wiki, you make one of the clumsiest parries I've ever witnessed and then try to [SIZE=-1]riposte[/SIZE]. It does not wash. I was at Cal in 1968 in the Zoology Department, so of course I read it, it was a major topic of conversation in LSB, and I reread it in graduate school where it was a featured paper in the Marine Pollution course. Have you a reasonable explanation for your familiarity? It's a mildly esoteric piece.

How so?? you stated that giving instructors more flexibility would make for better courses. I dissagree, I think that if you give more flexibility to instructors they will make it more easy on themselves do the minimum and no more. It is human nature to make it easier on themselves and this, is the "tradegy of the commons", and the reason for the 480 odd posts in this thread.

I made it quite clear in my previous post. Echo yourself all that you want, it's an empty sound and it does not get truer just because you repeat it without additional augmentation and argumentation.

Now this is just semantic smoke and mirrors, and probably a poorly disguised troll.

That statement is clear evidence of the paucity of your argument, no reasoning, no analysis, just name calling, well ... nah, nah, to you too. Nice.

There is no captive audience, you can choose whatever agency you like.

Lots of folks have posted on this board indicating that they teach PADI programs not because they wanted to, but because they did not perceive an alternative, but I guess they were all just trolls poorly disguisedly as tools. Eh?

 

[ScubaRandy]

To my knowledge, cave training standards have not relaxed but I'm not a cave instructor.

What I know is that we see more physical evidence of poor technique and improper etiquette than we used to. In some caves, the physical evidence I've seen is rather dramatic. Aside from the obvious increase in popularity and the numbers of divers in the caves I don't really know what the specific causes are. I'm just not in "cave country" enough anymore to see much of what's going on.

A beginning theory would be that people don't simply care about the environment they are in.... They believe it is there for their own enjoyment, and it doesn't matter what they do...

If divers were getting hurt and dying and having problems, given the current propensity in the news media to sensationalize anything and focus on it for as long as they can, we would be hearing about scuba diver deaths and injuries on CNN and Fox News. Remember the Year of the Shark Attacks?

Randy

 

[Mako Mark]

If not mad then what?
and I reread it in graduate school where I studied Oceanography?

I also read it in graduate school who cares where we read it anyhow..

Have you a reasonable explanation for your familiarity? It's a mildly esoteric piece.
I made it quite clear in my previous post. Echo yourself all that you want, it's an empty sound and it does not get truer just because you repeat it without further augmentation or argumentation.
That statement is clear evidence of the paucity of your argument, no reasoning, no analysis, just name calling, well ... nah, nah, to you too. Nice.

Priceless..

Nope, no name calling from this end, I thought your smoke and mirror semantics was rather clever, I nearly complimented you on it then and will now.

Lots of folks have posted on this board indicating that they taught PADI programs not because they wanted to, but because they did not perceive an alternative, but I guess they were all just trolls poorly disguisedly as tools. Eh?

I rest my case, It was a poorly disguised agancy bash that you are not even willing to claim as your own.

I am suprised at you, with your knowlege and experience, you could be so much more constructive on the board. Contribute, dont just criticize.

 

[Thalassamania]

Well ... at least you got a chuckle from "trolls poorly disguised as tools."

I fear that there is no bandaid patch for the current 20 hour BS, so the best that one can do is gtry and save a few by pointing out its inadequacies and inappropriateness.

 

[The Chairman]

Lots of folks have posted on this board indicating that they teach PADI programs not because they wanted to, but because they did not perceive an alternative, but I guess they were all just trolls poorly disguisedly as tools. Eh?

Hmnnnn, I have been on this Board a tad longer than you, and I don't ever recall this being stated as a reason. But you say "lots". Could you point us to say, five instances where this has been stated as THE reason they want to teach PADI? Not that five is the same as "lots", but I doubt that you could give us five.

 

[Thalassamania]

Well, at least you've still got a sense of humor and got a chuckle out of "trolls poorly disguisedly as tools." There's hope for you yet, not much hope, but hope just the same.

Pete, I know that I could find five such instances, but it is not sort of thing that lends itself to an easy search strategy, and since it will not change your mind all it will do is waste my time. You really can't remember five instances where someone said something like, "I don't like the PADI program but they're: the only shop in town or where I get referrals, or some such?"

 

[The Chairman]

You really can't remember five instances where someone said something like, "I don't like the PADI program but they're: the only shop in town or where I get referrals, or some such?"

Not really. Maybe one, and then I remember one that referred to another agency as well. "Lots" is a real stretch for me.