Hollis future support for Prism 2?

[KenGordon]

Looking at going CCR from Hollis Explorer in 2018 and the P2 ticks most of my boxes in terms of features, capabilities and available training. The trouble is that I bought a brand new V2 Hollis Explorer not long ago and got stung badly when Huish (Hollis) without warning walked away from the unit- no support, no services just FU!
If they did this with the Explorer because the bean counters said that the bottom line was not good enough what is the chance that they could do exactly the same thing with the P2 somewhere down the line?
Like the old saying says "fool me once- shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"!
So, this is my biggest concern about buying a P2 from Huish (Hollis) and does anyone know something that could allay my fears? Or should I be looking instead at a unit from an established independent manufacturer that places some priority on customer loyalty and service.
Other contenders are the Spirit LTE from KISS and the ISC Pathfinder.

I thought the Prism looked pretty good but I could never trust these big multiple line manufacturers with something so important.

I have a JJ, JJ are rebreathers or bust. ADP are pretty much rebreathers or bust. You want a rebreather buy it from a rebreather company.

 

[reefrat]

I think I know why Huish ran (not walked) away from the explorer! Went for a dive today and all OK until 10 minutes in the HUD flashes blue/green- no problem, check the display and ....blank, no wait there’s something there but it has gone so dull it cannot be read. Then the hud gives me the bail-out red led and buzz- OK done, then goes green/blue again but still no legible display, Dive over. Back on the surface the handset display appears to have recovered it’s composure but an hour later I discover that I cannot turn the LSS off, I can see “turn off” on the menu but it will not select it so it’s sitting on the shelf flashing and looking a bit silly! I will probably pull the cover and remove the batteries to hard boot the LSS, that might fix it but it will be the third time I have done this- the other two times were when it froze during charging. All in all not very reassuring for a Life Support System (LSS).
Só the KISS option is looking more attractive, or maybe people just dont have to put up with this BS from Shearwater or ISC systems?

 

[tbone1004]

I haven't heard anything like that from Shearwater... who makes the current ISC electronics btw.

Have you thought about getting the KISS mCCR head for the Explorer? Keep the same unit but convert to mCCR and ditch all of the annoying ****?

 

[wedivebc]

I haven't heard anything like that from Shearwater... who makes the current ISC electronics btw.

Have you thought about getting the KISS mCCR head for the Explorer? Keep the same unit but convert to mCCR and ditch all of the annoying ****?

The ISC electronics are made by ISC and supported by ISC and forever will be.

A person trained to dive the Explorer does not have sufficient training to dive a CCR. It is a whole other level of skills. KISS is making a huge mistake liability-wise if they are releasing the Explorer conversion without a training plan established through a recognized (insured) agency.

There is a good chance the P2 will continue to be supported but Hollis assets are sold to Huish except the rebreather division. I believe they are re-grouping

 

[tbone1004]

@wedivebc
the meg15/pathfinder electronics are all co-developed with Shearrwater. They're proprietary, but don't believe they are made by ISC. Would be stupid of them if they were unless they couldn't get Berry compliance approval from Canada. In that case, they may have had to bring assembly and machining in house, but I highly doubt they're making the boards.

The forever will be is definitely not true since the pre-ISCAN electronics are officially not supported as of yesterday
all that said, if it is true that they make their own electronics, I'm not entirely sure that being designed and made by a company that doesn't design and produce electronics is a good thing when compared to a company that only designs and produces electronics...

Obviously retraining would be required, and I'm sure that IANTD will have a program out for it as soon as the conversion is complete and available.

 

[JohnnyC]

Just to throw some other fun stuff in the mix, I dive a Pelagian, and in 3 days I will be doing my crossover to the SF2. Once the crossover is done, the SF2 will be getting a needle valve like the Pelagian. I had a Meg. It was sweet. Neo lungs, big ass can and big ass scrubber, bomb proof electronics. It was a pain to travel with, and I didn't like the PO2 profile of a fully electronic unit. It was truly expedition worthy, and really only worth it if I were going on an expedition. Or several expeditions. Where someone else was paying for travel..... Contrast that, the Pelagian can fit in a carry-on and I can use any tank on the market, and I can fix it with duct tape, hot glue, and the tire of a Belarussian M1nsk. The SF2 can be checked along with a bunch of other stuff that I always have to check anyway and travels surprisingly well. I'd be interested in a Fathom, needle valve, radial scrubber, pretty much a first world built Pelagian, but I like the internal counterlung of the SF2 for cave diving so I went that direction, and the golden parachute of the solenoid is nice. Also the US distributor is a good dude and does the types of dives I want to build up to, so I have a good source of knowledge on the unit and its capabilities.

All that having been said, I picked my units based on my own wants and desires. Figure out exactly what you want in a unit. Chances are, there are several that meet your needs, and a bunch of others that can fit with a little modification (see SF2 with a needle valve, or adding a 3rd cell to the Pelagian). It may be better for you to pick a unit that has some compromises but can be easily modified, than getting a less desirable unit simply because it ticks the right boxes up front.

ETA: ISC won the Mk28 contract before the Shearwater/DiveCAN electronics were in the Meg so it's a moot point as far as the civilian market is concerned. It's basically a tall can 8lb radial Meg with an aluminum head. Unless the Navy has done a PIP for the Mk28's (which I haven't seen on any of the contract sites), they're running the APECS 2.xx electronics which made by ISC and were Berry compliant back in 2010 when the NEDU did the testing. But again, none of this has to do with the civilian market. Leon's a nice guy though, I bet if someone sent him or Jerry an e-mail they'd be happy to talk about their development of the Meg15 and the civilian product line.

 

[wedivebc]

@wedivebc
the meg15/pathfinder electronics are all co-developed with Shearrwater. They're proprietary, but don't believe they are made by ISC. Would be stupid of them if they were unless they couldn't get Berry compliance approval from Canada. In that case, they may have had to bring assembly and machining in house, but I highly doubt they're making the boards.

That is absolutely false. I am talking to Leon right this minute.

 

[tbone1004]

That is absolutely false. I am talking to Leon right this minute.

Shearwater and ISC have both publicly announced a joint venture for development of the iScan. If that is incorrect, then the press releases have been incorrect. They have said that divecan does not equal iscan, however it was done in joint venture going back to 2009 or 2010. I'd be shocked if ISC invested in the engineering required to develop their own canbus network. Whether they manufacture the handsets or not is irrelevant since the important bit is the programming.

In either instance, your statement about ISC supporting their products "forever" is incorrect as they have officially given analog megs an EoL as of yesterday. They'll support them as long as they have parts, but that's it. If they are manufacturing everything in house, then that is a huge reason for me to avoid the Meg15 upgrade to my unit because it puts me in with proprietary electronics and if Leon gets hit by a bus, that's probably the end of ISC and all support for that head....

 

[wedivebc]

Shearwater and ISC have both publicly announced a joint venture for development of the iScan. If that is incorrect, then the press releases have been incorrect. They have said that divecan does not equal iscan, however it was done in joint venture going back to 2009 or 2010. I'd be shocked if ISC invested in the engineering required to develop their own canbus network. Whether they manufacture the handsets or not is irrelevant since the important bit is the programming.

In either instance, your statement about ISC supporting their products

ISC independently created, developed and owns all it's code. That is a direct quote from the CEO of ISC today at 18:31hrs PST.

 

[tbone1004]

ISC independently created, developed and owns all it's code. That is a direct quote from the CEO of ISC today at 18:31hrs PST.

interesting and good to know. Thanks for clarifying.
I figured they did all of their own solenoid programming and what not since they have developed a very good solenoid control in the past so it would make sense that that implementation was translated into the digital control, but that's different than the bus interface interface itself and is curious what part of the "joint venture" Shearwater had since Leon is saying they didn't have any part of it.

Also, your comment about ISC supporting their electronics "forever", can you please clarify that since their website specifically states end of life for pre-iscan units of yesterday? Specifically that they can no longer guarantee service of said units. What is to stop them from doing the same with the Meg15? You made a very confident and blanket statement, and clearly have better information than the rest of us, so care to elaborate?