How can I choose?

[alcadhrim]

I'm currently following the PADI Rescue course and my instructor ask me about MSD.

Well, MSD is quite nice but it is only a card. No skill(s) required...

So I wonder if It shoulden't be wiser to buy a divemaster set and study/practise it for myself (I don't really wont to be a pro, it could be nice but I've a full time job). I wonder that because if you become a MSD your'll be a leader very frequently (here, if you've got the "higher" card you ARE the Dive Director) and I'm not sure that 5 PADI specialties make me able to handle a group without big mistake.

So what do you think?

What I wont to do is diving with my friends but as a matter of fact, the main part of my friends are OWD.

 

[spectrum]

Are you saying that having a higher certification actually demands that you assume the leadership role?

Here we dive as a group with vastly different training and experience levels and on any given day anyone may be leading but I would not say that anyone is "in charge"

Knowing more about your local customs and requirements may help many of us respond.

Pete

 

[SubMariner]

I'm currently following the PADI Rescue course and my instructor ask me about MSD.

Well, MSD is quite nice but it is only a card. No skill(s) required...

So I wonder if It shoulden't be wiser to buy a divemaster set and study/practise it for myself (I don't really wont to be a pro, it could be nice but I've a full time job). I wonder that because if you become a MSD your'll be a leader very frequently (here, if you've got the "higher" card you ARE the Dive Director) and I'm not sure that 5 PADI specialties make me able to handle a group without big mistake.

So what do you think?

What I wont to do is diving with my friends but as a matter of fact, the main part of my friends are OWD.

Good questions!

There is a significant difference between being an MSD and a DM. A brief overview:

MSD: OW, Advanced Open Water, Rescue Diver (or equivalent from other Agency) +5 PADI Specialties. (Emergency First Response, or equivalent, is also prerequisite for RD certification.) This is NOT a Professional designation and DOES NOT allow or prepare you to be a Dive Leader.

Divemaster: OW, Advanced Open Water, Rescue Diver (or equivalent from other Agency) is a prerequisite. The DM Candidate must be at least 18 years of age and have proof of at least 20 logged dives at the start of the course; 60 logged dives are required for certification.
Also required for DM certification:
- current CPR/1st aid certification within the previous 24 months
- submit medical clearance/fitness to dive
- successful completion of all knowledge development, watermanship, & stamina tests. Also successful completion of training through either Practical or Internship.
After successful certification, duly insured DMs are authorized conduct certain training courses on their own (such as Skin Diver, Discover Scuba Diving, or Emergency First Response) function as dive guides or leaders for certified divers, and under the supervision of Instructors, be certified assistants during training of uncertified divers. (There's a little more to this last part, but that is the general gist of it.)

As you can see, DM is a Professional designation that requires more training and experience than MSD.

Has this helped answer your questions? If not, feel free to fire away, either here or by PM.

Take care,

 

[alcadhrim]

Are you saying that having a higher certification actually demands that you assume the leadership role?

Yes, that's exactly that. It may be surprising but it is a rule here (the main dive sites are private and the owners generally ask for a responsable (I do not know if the word is correct) and the higher-card-diver is the one! I've been noted as leader when my wife and I were OWD because I was AENx and she doesn't -completely pointless this rule)

 

[TSandM]

The Divemaster certification (at least in my experience) won't do anything for your personal diving skills, but if you do the internship portion with classes, it will definitely give you some tools and experience for leading groups with varying degrees of ability and experience.

 

[Slonda828]

I know it has been beaten to death, but that MSD card is a scam. There is no "certification" card in any other sport that I have ever seen that gives you "credit" for things that you have already done. If you went to a rock climbing place or an outfitter and got a card for routes and paddles that you had already done, people would think you were mad.

+1 for what TsandM said as well. My DM course did not in and of itself make me a better diver, but working with new divers and leading charters was an enlightening experience. If you want to spend a bunch of money, DM would be a far better use of your time then getting "specialties" in things that one of your friends could show you in a pool on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[rstofer]

What's the problem? Just show your OW card and be done with it. One thing I learned in the Army: keep your mouth shut! When they ask the squad "Who has a driver's license?", they're looking for suckers to wash the tanks over in the motor pool. Show just enough qualifications to do the dive.

OTOH, the 5 specialties may very well be worth the effort. There's always something to learn. After having completed them, it's up to you whether you apply for the PADI MSD card. It's a form of recognition for having completed the courses necessary to be awarded the card. True, it's meaningless. But if you have done the work, why not get the reward? The real value is in the specialties themselves.

Richard

 

[alcadhrim]

One thing I learned in the Army

Never put a toe in Army it may be that. But you know in a group everybody knows the level of everybody. I don't care about taking responsabilities but only if I feel I can honestly bear those responsibilities. Like everybody I suppose.

Well, I suppose the 5 specialties are interesting (I've got 3 at this time by the way). That's not the problem indeed. The thing is I don't think this card useful.

 

[Slonda828]

Never put a toe in Army it may be that. But you know in a group everybody knows the level of everybody. I don't care about taking responsabilities but only if I feel I can honestly bear those responsibilities. Like everybody I suppose.

Well, I suppose the 5 specialties are interesting (I've got 3 at this time by the way). That's not the problem indeed. The thing is I don't think this card useful.

Well, I'm not sure how it works in Belgium, but here the benefit of having a DM in your group of buddies is that if you know the charter sometimes you can DM for your group. This way everyone on the boat is part of the same group of friends and the overall experience is (to me) nicer than diving with a stranger. Maybe you could be that person for your group. Getting the MSD is not going to get you anything that you do not already have...except I think a tote bag and a pre-printed wall certificate.

 

[DCBC]

It largely depends upon your alternatives. By taking the MSD, will your diving experiences be greatly improved, when compared with what you can learn with other divers? As your potential of learning largely depends on the Instructor on any training program, is it of value? The MSD card may be meaningless, but the experience you may gain isn't.

As previously noted, Divemaster is a leadership level. Because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should do a thing. Do you want to be a Divemaster or Instructor? If not, don't bother.

If you do, what type of DM do you want to be? Not all DMs are competent and many could improve their skill-sets by gaining diving experience. Becoming a DM doesn't mean anything unless you're competent. I recommend that you worry about your personal competence before you put yourself in a situation of being responsible for someone else's. When your good to go and you want to, move into leadership.