How can I choose?

[Slonda828]

It largely depends upon your alternatives. By taking the MSD, will your diving experiences be greatly improved, when compared with what you can learn with other divers? As your potential of learning largely depends on the Instructor on any training program, is it of value? The MSD card may be meaningless, but the experience you may gain isn't.

As previously noted, Divemaster is a leadership level. Because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should do a thing. Do you want to be a Divemaster or Instructor? If not, don't bother.

If you do, what type of DM do you want to be? Not all DMs are competent and many could improve their skill-sets by gaining diving experience. Becoming a DM doesn't mean anything unless you're competent. I recommend that you worry about your personal competence before you put yourself in a situation of being responsible for someone else's. When your good to go and you want to, move into leadership.

If he already has 3 specialties, what is he going to gain from getting the MSD card? The card is rescue and 5 specialties, right? How is he going to gain more experience from a card? OTOH I agree with your sentiments about DM.

 

[DCBC]

If he already has 3 specialties, what is he going to gain from getting the MSD card? The card is rescue and 5 specialties, right? How is he going to gain more experience from a card? OTOH I agree with your sentiments about DM.

I hear what your saying, but you get nothing from the card; it's the training you receive. If the Instructor's aware of his training to-date, he might try to concentrate on some of the areas that would strengthen his experience as a diver (I know I would). I didn't say that this would be his best choice, but I did pose the question as an option.

The DM program will not strengthen his personal diving abilities (with the exception of possibly vessel operation, dive planning and rescue/evacuation), as it's a leadership role and takes a different path. I encourage any DM candidate to first strengthen his diving skills before taking on the mantel of leadership. Too many (IMO) rush into the leadership role without adequate preparation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If you want a Master Scuba Diver card that means something, look at the NAUI program. It's not at all like the PADI card by the same name. It is an intensive program that focuses on diving skills, knowledge, and practices. To my concern, it's the best course NAUI offers ... and if taught properly it WILL make you a better diver.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Slonda828]

If you want a Master Scuba Diver card that means something, look at the NAUI program. It's not at all like the PADI card by the same name. It is an intensive program that focuses on diving skills, knowledge, and practices. To my concern, it's the best course NAUI offers ... and if taught properly it WILL make you a better diver.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree. I thought it had the best courseware of any diving course that I have taken, including DM and intro to tec. I really feel like you earn that NAUI card.

 

[alcadhrim]

I recommend that you worry about your personal competence before you put yourself in a situation of being responsible for someone else's

That is exaclty the question. Because of the rules, here, I have to lead sometimes (and more frequently with increasing card) and I know if I can lead and I know if I can't (I just know very well my limitations). If I can say, I'm not putting myself in anything, the thing come to me The dive sites owners want a leader: if something goes wrong...There is a guy to point. It is not with my friends that I could have any problem (I hope) but if I'm supposed to be written down as a leader, I've to fill the skills of it (I feel I go to my english borders there, if it's wrong, please apologize )

I will look at the Naui course (I'm curious and not married with PADI -thanks God!)

 

[DCBC]

...The dive sites owners want a leader: if something goes wrong...There is a guy to point... I will look at the Naui course (I'm curious and not married with PADI -thanks God!)

I would be careful putting myself into a leadership position without the DM certification and the liability insurance that goes with it.

I'm glad to hear you say that there are diving training alternatives. Too many people IMO buy-into the PADI philosophy completely," without understanding what other programs have to offer. I'm not PADI bashing here; I was a PADI instructor for 17 years. They have some Instructors that are excellent. There are other organizations however, that encourage the Instructor to teach and examine beyond the minimum training standards; NAUI is one of those organizations.

 

[SubMariner]

That is exaclty the question. Because of the rules, here, I have to lead sometimes (and more frequently with increasing card) and I know if I can lead and I know if I can't (I just know very well my limitations). If I can say, I'm not putting myself in anything, the thing come to me The dive sites owners want a leader: if something goes wrong...There is a guy to point. It is not with my friends that I could have any problem (I hope) but if I'm supposed to be written down as a leader, I've to fill the skills of it (I feel I go to my english borders there, if it's wrong, please apologize )

I will look at the Naui course (I'm curious and not married with PADI -thanks God!)

Decide what you want out of diving & go with the Instructor who can help you achieve those goals. The certification agency is irrelevant.

Bonne chance,

 

[Damselfish]

The NAUI Master course should certainly teach you much more than PADI, but it is still not a leadership course. My understanding is it's like a DM course with the leadership aspects removed. For people who want to gain knowledge and skills but not lead.

So is this some kind of actual law, or the rule of the owner(s) of these sites? If the latter, maybe they need some education. I have no idea how things work in Belgium, but if it came down to it, would having something signed by someone unqualified to lead cover them - especially if it were shown they knew they were unqualified? Maybe they should be making everyone diving sign a waiver instead.

'Course, rocking the boat is all liable to result in the site owner just not allowing diving. But if my choice were to follow an inane rule that I'm responsible for others because I have the highest card, when it makes no sense and I have no such training, insurance, etc. - or to not dive - I think I would not dive. It's even a disincentive to further formal training, hope someone else gets a higher card and you don't have to worry about it.

Has anyone

 

[alcadhrim]

[QUOTEThe certification agency is irrelevant.
][/QUOTE] You're absolutely rigth.

I think I would not dive

Yes but if I do that, I don't dive apart on vacations.

I know this situation is stupid and that's why I wonder. But all the rules here are...old fashioned (and I try not to be rude )

 

[spectrum]

alcadhrim

If holding a MSD card makes you a defacto leader against your wishes the just don't get the card. You are dealing with regional practices that are foreign to many of us but that seems to be your reality.

As I think you realize holding a MSD card does not make you into a qualified leader. Go ahead and dive, learning from others and taking specialty classes that will fill gaps mentors may not be prepared to close. By and large regular diving will be your best teacher. When hard work and frequent diving have your buddies asking you to lead and you are feeling comfortable in the role you can reevaluate the situation.

Other than that I would not run out to get a card, especially that one.

Pete