How do dive shops treat new or would-be divers?

[Joe-Diver]

I heard a stat in my open water class that 90% of the people who take the class will never dive again. I don't know the accuracy of that stat or how geographically-dependent it is, but to me that says the dive shops aren't doing the best job at retaining students.

I suspect that you heard a myth that has been perpetuated for many years in the industry. The stat is usually 80% but you know how these things go.

Many years ago PADI investigated the genesis of this popular myth and found it came from a student's flawed survey in the early 1970's. When polling diver retention the student counted "no response" to the survey as a dropout.

Later studies have shown a dropout rate closer to 45% to 50% after 4 years.

 

[ClayJar]

There is a dive shop within about a mile of where I live. I'd pass it every so often, but I always thought of diving as something expensive and dangerous that I'd love to try but probably never would get around to doing. Then one day, I found myself with some extra time and a bit of an adventurous twinge, so I stopped in.

As I drove around the little building (parking is behind the store), I felt *so* out of place. I felt like I didn't know whether I was even allowed to go in there, and I was dropping in with *zero* intent to buy anything. I was just curious after all those years of passing by. Anyway, I worked up the courage, parked the car, and went inside.

Wouldn't you know it, I was immediately accosted by a very nice person. They asked if I was a diver, and I answered that no, I wasn't. I told them that there was no way I could afford to get into diving any time soon, but that I'd always been curious about it and just wanted to look at what was in there. They didn't even try to talk me into diving, but merely accepted me as an interested non-diver, chatted with me about diving and the gear they had there, and answered any questions I could come up with. When I asked, they even let me alone to take in all the sights. The only "marketing" they did was just to cheerfully ask me to remember the shop is there when I finally got around to diving. [They *know*, I'm telling you!]

I bought nothing, and I used their time and effort to do it. I almost felt bad that they were that good to me when I'd openly told them that they could not make anything off me then or in the foreseeable future. After I left, I soon forgot all about diving; I still thought it was far too expensive to ever really do.

Well, obviously, one day I did end up getting around to it. (Actually, J.'s dad bought his whole family the class, and there was no way in Neptune's oceans I would let her get around to it without me. Money has no chance to stop you when you have less than 48 hours from getting around to it to the class starting, eh?) Anyway, the first night of the course, I showed up at the dive shop, and then I remembered everything that happened ages ago. They were still every bit as nice and polite and helpful as they had been, and I was happy that theirs was the shop we were training through.

Since then, I have spent *many* dollars at the shop (far and away more than that first non-purchasing visit cost them), and I have even had friends certify through them. They don't even have a problem with a large amount of my gear coming from elsewhere (they don't carry DSS or Jet fins or that clearance drysuit I picked up online). They know that I'll spend money with them, too, and that being good people goes quite far toward having more people funnel in.

We have another shop in town, too. I've been in there several times, but I always feel unwelcome. Every time I go in there to try to find something I've been told that they just had some the other day but they sold the last one. That would make me a little suspicious after the third time or so, but it always feels as if I'm supposed to think that's the wrong gear to be wanting to buy, anyway. I keep trying to like them, but it's just not working for me.

When my brother finally gets around to taking a class, I'll have to send him to both shops to see how they treat him. It'd be an interesting experiment to see whether it's all just me, or whether one is better than the other. (Actually, it'd also be interesting to have a certified diver "move here from out of town" to see how they each treat someone who already has all the gear and likely won't be as high a profit center as a new diver.) Anyway...

 

[Tim Greaves]

A LDS near me treated me very badly when I was a new diver and so I never bought anything from them.. I also took some of their customers away and brought their business to a LDS that has always treated me good.. When im screwed over I ALWAYS make it my mission to return the favor..

 

[diver 85]

In general, you've so far found a bunch of morons......Good luck in future dive shop relationships, I've never encountered that problem here locally......Do you know anyone else that is certified ie other divers(S) that you can 'buddy up' with???..Sounds like a local thing to me.....

 

[Leejnd]

A lot of this has to do with the luck of the draw - either you end up at a shop that understands customer service and customer retention, or you don't. I tend to agree that it's not "industry-specific" - it's more just a human phenomenon. I got into running marathons and triathlons a few years ago, and there are a few running-related shops that I began to visit. The ones populated by people who raised their noses at all my newbie questions, and tossed jargon out at me knowing full well I didn't know what they were saying (but it sure made them feel oh-so-smart-and superior) saw me once and never again. The shops that offered to answer my questions and educate me, without pressuring me to buy the latest gizmo, got my money when I started understanding all of the different accessories and was ready to buy.

Fortunately, when I started diving I ended up at an LDS that happened to have staff who seemed to thrive on sharing their love for diving to anyone who would listen. It was hard not to get sucked into their enthusiasm! And when it came time to buy, we did our research and bought some things there, even knowing that we were spending a little more than we would if we bought them from other sources. We were willing to spend extra for the service we knew we would get, and out of a sense of loyalty and gratitude for all they had done for us. We also bought some of the high-ticket items online, and never once did our LDS make us feel guilty for doing so. They know all of our gear, and where we got it, and it's a non-issue. These are people who love to dive, and to share their love for it.

When it came time to buy a couple of tanks recently, we knew exactly where we could go to get them for a bit less than the LDS sells them for. But guess where we went instead?

I'll tell you where I've seen FAR more elitist behavior -- on certain local dive-related message boards. They bill themselves as being there to give newbies a place to find more experienced dive buddies, but then they drive the newbies off by making them feel like morons for not knowing all the tribal knowledge. I bailed on those boards long ago. Let them get all puffed up and pat themselves on the back for how cool they are and how many dives they got and all the hip dive-lingo they know and all their techie gear. Meanwhile I found some dive buddies who don't have to make others feel like idiots in order to make themselves feel good.

 

[ThunderdiverD]

I think most shops treat your well and yet they are eager to sell, sell sell. So just be aware and know what you want and do not buy past your limits. As far as talking behind your back? So divers/shop owners think they know it all and with stupidity comes, well you know.

 

[aubie85]

IMO you get that 'newbie' treatment with almost everything, we just have to sit back and roll with the punches.

For example, I am a new golfer, so in the pro-shop I am treated as BOTH a newbie(and a woman). Also, as a student nurse, I also get treated bad as well(but not as bad as the male nursing students).

However, so far, I have been treated pretty well as a newbie at my LDS, even considering that fact they know I am a college student(=broke) and won't be able to spend a whole lot of money there. I guess I just got lucky.

 

[divingyogini]

I'm wondering what would happen if a place with great customer service like REI ever got into the dive gear business. I once bought a back pack from them and after three hours on the trail realized it was totally not fitting me well. They accepted the return no problem. I tried to clean off the dirt as much as possible but it still was obvious I had taken it out on an overnight trip, and of course I told them. They expect people to return some gear after taking it out and using it.

So much different than what I have encountered in several shops.

"Women's BC's fit very differently than men's."

"No we don't have any women's BC's in our rental stock, just men's."

"The BC will fit very differently in the water once you get weight in it as well."

"No we have no way of letting you test it in the water and no we can't rent you this one to try out."

"Once you buy it you can return it, as long as it never goes in the water. The minute you test it out in a pool or a lake, you own it and you will have to try and sell it used on eBay or something if it doesn't work out."

I know everyone has policies for a reason, and some people are very abusive of return policies (I worked in retail and saw enough deodorant stains, pit stains and even wine stains on formal dresses to attest to that) but man, if a bike shop ever told you that you could not only test ride the bike but that the minute you rode it you could never return it, they'd be laughed out of business. Yet I encountered this from several shops when buying a BC. I know not all shops are like this and ran into some that were great, but I still find it rather odd.

It sounds like some shop owners have taken initiative or had the common sense to do a great job in welcoming people to the dive community but it sounds like that there hasn't been a big industry-wide initiative from a manufacturer. I know PADI mentions this in the divemaster course, but it's not in too much depth and I don't know how much sales training they give to shops (they do say in the divemaster class, don't make assumptions that the customer wants the cheapest gear - they might want the top of the line, of course!)

 

[divingyogini]

IMO you get that 'newbie' treatment with almost everything, we just have to sit back and roll with the punches.

I would say not always. We encountered a bike shop owner in Seattle who was wonderful with my husband, who was just getting into biking. He even stayed a good 60 minutes or so after the shop closed to really explain various features, pros/cons to him. The bike mechanic shop in Missoula we visited not only gave us a bike map but also invited us to their Friday night keggers.

In the yoga community, it's very hit or miss, the studio where I teach now emphasizes that we go out of our way to welcome new students and make them feel comfortable. But many yoga studios are far more aloof towards new students.

Service does seem to be on the decline in the US. I'm always amazed at the difference between Seattle and Vancouver, BC. Just roughly 200 miles about but a world of difference in terms of service industry (perhaps waiters who have health care are happier people).

I guess the big question I was asking was that in the bike industry, the execs realized that some shops really put off newbies and that driving away customers obviously affects revenue. So they are doing something about it because it's very good business sense to make new people feel welcome, especially after spending ad money to get them in the door in the first place.

 

[Ed L.]

When I was kid back in the early 70's East Coast Diving Supply was right next to the conveniance store where we would blow our meager allowance on candy, bubble gum etc.

We would always stop in look at the gear and dream about diving. We were never kicked out or talked down to. some 20 odd years later I got certified through the same shop which had changed locations since then!