That's true. On the other hand, a lot of the time, the person who gets credit for something is not the one who first comes up with the idea, or even creates a prototype, but the first who does it really well AND achieves some level of adoption and visibility. iPhone was, in fact, a somewhat incremental product... what set it apart in the eyes of an average consumer was the quality of execution, and on the basis of that commercial success, for all intents and purposes, in the eyes of the general public, they got basically all the credit for "inventing" the modern smartphone. A while back, when I was still in academia, my advisor used to tell me that "vision is cheap", and in a world, in which everything depends on credibility, the only "currency" that matters is having the real thing in your hand. GUE has the real thing. I have either taken classes from, or interacted with instructors from 5 agencies, and in my (admittedly modest) experience, the amount of good, detailed feedback that I was able to squeeze out of my GUE instructor was the best, by a large margin... this applies to both class, as well as mentoring outside of class. It's all about the quality of execution, and the predictability of the results... to reiterate my earlier point, the implementation is just as important as the idea itself.
How do you incorporate focused practice into your diving?
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That's true. On the other hand, a lot of the time, the person who gets credit for something is not the one who first comes up with the idea, or even creates a prototype, but the first who does it really well AND achieves some level of adoption and visibility. iPhone was, in fact, a somewhat incremental product... what set it apart in the eyes of an average consumer was the quality of execution, and on the basis of that commercial success, for all intents and purposes, in the eyes of the general public, they got basically all the credit for "inventing" the modern smartphone. A while back, when I was still in academia, my advisor used to tell me that "vision is cheap", and in a world, in which everything depends on credibility, the only "currency" that matters is having the real thing in your hand. GUE has the real thing. I have either taken classes from, or interacted with instructors from 5 agencies, and in my (admittedly modest) experience, the amount of good, detailed feedback that I was able to squeeze out of my GUE instructor was the best, by a large margin... this applies to both class, as well as mentoring outside of class. It's all about the quality of execution, and the predictability of the results... to reiterate my earlier point, the implementation is just as important as the idea itself.
PfcAJ
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Certain individuals in all agencies teach it, but it's not unversal within technical agencies. It doesn't take much to see that many instructors do not teach nor demand the level of control that gue teaches and demands across all its classes.
KevinNM
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Yeah, there was the video that a tech shop used as their promo video that got linked here. IIRC, of the 12 or so people shown, 1 or 2 looked like the what you would expect a tech diver to look like. The rest were doing stuff like being vertical in the water finning like mad to keep off the bottom. It was very bizarre.
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Take 1000 recreational divers at random..whether in Palm beach, Cancun, Cayman or the Keys....
Most of us will agree ( I hope) that a substantial number of this 1000, will NOT be suited for tech diving..the wrong mind sets, skills too far below the minimum, and they would not be trainable for tech within the framework of any existing tech courses by any agency.
GUE would never allow these divers to even enter into the tech program--they would be weeded out by fundies.
PADI Tech Would Allow all or most of this 1000 in...and PADI is not in the business of flunking never-evers. or for EXCLUDING good paying past consumers, from buying more expensive dive classes.......this is a problem for PADI Tech.
How can they deal with this? Just enforcing that each has taken the required Padi courses for PADI Tech, will NOT help in this.
And what of the Instructors that have poor trim and skills themselves--and that have horrible gear configurations in water themselves?
I would love to see a random pick of 10 PADI Tech Instructors, to be placed into a GUE Fundies Class...and see if even 50% could pass the course--this being a recreational precursor skills course for Tech that ALL GUE instructors are awesome in....
In fairness, I suppose you could put 10 randomly picked GUE tech instructors...in the intro Level PADI Tech course...but is there anyone here that would not "bet the farm", that the GUE tech instructors would all massively eclipse the skill requirements for the course?
I think this goes to the idea of stereotyping and saying that some diver has GUE-like skills....it "means" something.
It is the alternative to having to explain with 3 minutes of description...and end up with very close to the same resultant mental image, that you could get from saying "GUE-like skills".
Most of us will agree ( I hope) that a substantial number of this 1000, will NOT be suited for tech diving..the wrong mind sets, skills too far below the minimum, and they would not be trainable for tech within the framework of any existing tech courses by any agency.
GUE would never allow these divers to even enter into the tech program--they would be weeded out by fundies.
PADI Tech Would Allow all or most of this 1000 in...and PADI is not in the business of flunking never-evers. or for EXCLUDING good paying past consumers, from buying more expensive dive classes.......this is a problem for PADI Tech.
How can they deal with this? Just enforcing that each has taken the required Padi courses for PADI Tech, will NOT help in this.
And what of the Instructors that have poor trim and skills themselves--and that have horrible gear configurations in water themselves?
I would love to see a random pick of 10 PADI Tech Instructors, to be placed into a GUE Fundies Class...and see if even 50% could pass the course--this being a recreational precursor skills course for Tech that ALL GUE instructors are awesome in....
In fairness, I suppose you could put 10 randomly picked GUE tech instructors...in the intro Level PADI Tech course...but is there anyone here that would not "bet the farm", that the GUE tech instructors would all massively eclipse the skill requirements for the course?
I think this goes to the idea of stereotyping and saying that some diver has GUE-like skills....it "means" something.
It is the alternative to having to explain with 3 minutes of description...and end up with very close to the same resultant mental image, that you could get from saying "GUE-like skills".
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Here is another point of contention....there are people that are detail oriented...and there are people that are not...
With cameras, underwater, if you dont have a bullet-proof and detailed prep routine for your underwater photography...the likelihood is that a camera flood will be in your future.
Rebreathers are even more problematic here. Some people can do the details...some cant...
Some people can do the checklist and skills to fly a 747 Jet...some are better off driving a scooter
Tech training needs to address individual differences and aptitudes, and it needs to flunk many...many are not made for Tech...or uw photography..or for Flying Jets.
With cameras, underwater, if you dont have a bullet-proof and detailed prep routine for your underwater photography...the likelihood is that a camera flood will be in your future.
Rebreathers are even more problematic here. Some people can do the details...some cant...
Some people can do the checklist and skills to fly a 747 Jet...some are better off driving a scooter
Tech training needs to address individual differences and aptitudes, and it needs to flunk many...many are not made for Tech...or uw photography..or for Flying Jets.
I should have been much more careful in wording my post, I apologize if it offended you or anyone else. You are a great instructor, and I have enjoyed a lot of really good feedback from you... I also think you are in a category completely of your own, and I am pretty sure you would still be the same great mentor if you happened to teach for any other agency. I believe this has everything to do with who you are as a person, your passion, experience, and love for teaching, and nothing to do with your formal affiliation.
I was responding to a post that talked about agencies, and commenting on my overall experiences when it comes to consistently getting detailed, helpful feedback from the entire pool of instructors of X, Y, or Z. Looking at the sum of all my past experiences, GUE is the only case so far where I feel I can comfortably use the world "consistently". This leads me to a conclusion that even if the agency did not invent certain principles, it still deserves credit for the successful implementation, much in the same way that Apple deserves the credit for "inventing" the modern smartphone...
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You didn't offend me in the least Krzys ... I know you too well for that. Besides, our local GUE instructor is a friend of mine, and a great instructor ... I'm happy that you're working with him.
I just felt like "tweaking" you over the comment ... it made me smile ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I just felt like "tweaking" you over the comment ... it made me smile ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
You didn't offend me in the least Krzys ... I know you too well for that. Besides, our local GUE instructor is a friend of mine, and a great instructor ... I'm happy that you're working with him. I just felt like "tweaking" you over the comment ... it made me smile ...
Tweaking was well deserved... and I cannot believe I just tried to derail my own thread with a comment on scuba agencies. The only thing I have to say to my defense, is not having gone diving on Sunday...
I have said these exact words to some people (LCF I believe might have been one of them many years ago)...
At certain times in every divers development... you need to stop worrying about your skills at that level and just go dive and have fun and realize the world is a big place with lots of people and fish in it (71% of the globe) and that by gaining some dive life experience you will round out what you already know and develop soft skills that you didn't realize were important and just generally remember why you are diving (to see interesting things right?)
After a few dives (5, 20, 50) you are way better prepared to practice again in a more formal or controlled atmosphere. To my knowledge I have only felt like I have offered this recommendation when it seemed like there was a bit too much head banging going on with the practice, too much frustration, an excessive focus on one issue to the potential detriment of being well rounded, and not enough fun which leads to burnout and quitting the sport.
So no, the skill probably won't improve a lot by "just diving more". But does it need to? Is it good enough to go have some fun and fall in love with fish (or wet rocks) again?
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