How many rebreathers do I need to teach?

[kwinter]

If you're in Florida, Add Helium is a good place to START because you can see, touch and maybe even try many different units. But Rob is correct that Peter has a bias toward selling rEvos. Maybe it's because he thinks they're best for most people. But whether you start at a place like AH or not, or if you are not in Florida, you can get info about all the models at the large shows like DEMA, BTS, Boston Sea Rovers, Our World Underwater, etc. No one should take a blanket recommendation from any one instructor (even Rob ) about which rebreather to buy without checking out features and figuring out what is important to you. If you don't know enough about the right questions to ask, then you don't know enough yet to buy a rebreather.

 

[HIGHwing]

Two ways to look at the Add Helium store. 1) Having a large variety of units allows you to make an informed choice. 2) All those units are there to show you why purchasing a rEvo is the only way to go. I did a try dive on one of Peter's rEvos. Without a doubt the rEvo is a nice rig, but the gas manual gas injection setup begs for the the offboard gas block to make it easier to use, and I don't really want an hCCR. I prefer an eCCR and that means big dollars on a rEvo. Granted it's a nice machine and I like the idea of the micro, the flat profile for cave, etc. But, at the end of the day the rEvo is the another box of compromises. There's no "free lunch" with rebreathers.

That said, it is proving true that you can't have just one. Geez.

 

[TechDeep]

At DEMA this year I was encouraged to give up the idea of teach open water recreational Sidemount course that one of our branches has in development for one agency I cert through and try to focus on getting people into "recreational" rebreathers. Sidemount I was told point blank in front of several other instructors was "too technical".

Okay, I've been diving a long time, but just got my first "professional" certification this year. I am also someone who devours information like it's cookies and cream ice cream on just about any diving topic out there. So even though I may only ever do trial dives with rebreathers, I've spent a relatively large amount of time learning about them.


As I'm literally rigging a bottle at this moment for sidemount, after clipping it on to my nomad it's pretty much breathe in, breathe out, and you now have 2 spgs to watch if you are concerned about trim there skippy.

So I need to abandon this madness as too technical, order a KISS from Rob, and catch the next flight to get my training and certification? Maybe it's me, but anyone trying to make that ridiculous sell to me is wasting his breath and my time. And as far as credibility goes well he's going to have a tough time climbing out of that hole, and I'm going to be thinking about cookies and cream ice cream post haste.

 

[HIGHwing]

So even though I may only ever do trial dives with rebreathers, I've spent a relatively large amount of time learning about them.

This is an interesting thing you just said. It made me realize there is a difference between learning about a specific rebreather, versus learning generic rebreather concepts. Could be the spawn of an interesting article that examines the fact that rebreathers are forever evolving, but the training approach and materials essentialy haven't.

 

[kwinter]

Without a doubt the rEvo is a nice rig, but the gas manual gas injection setup begs for the the offboard gas block to make it easier to use, and I don't really want an hCCR. I prefer an eCCR and that means big dollars on a rEvo.

A manual gas add block is definitely an improvement that most people make. There are several options now, and several different prices. As for your comment about not wanting hCCR, then get the mCCR basic version. If you want eCCR, you don't pay anything more than hCCR and it doesn't cost all that much more than mCCR. Of course you need a controller and solenoid. The only difference between a pure eCCR and a hybrid is the presence of a leaky valve that reduces solenoid and battery use. And if you don't want the leaky valve for some reason, you can plug it. I think the plug may cost $10. I'm just not sure where your "big dollars on a rEvo" for eCCR compared to hCCR came from.

There's no "free lunch" with rebreathers.

That is true.

That said, it is proving true that you can't have just one. Geez.

And that is unfortunately very, very true.

 

[HIGHwing]

I'm just not sure where your "big dollars on a rEvo" for eCCR compared to hCCR came from.

[snip]

And that is unfortunately very, very true.

I was verbally quoted just over $12k right after RF3.0. I just ordered a Prism 2 with Petrels as my wife found it a compelling package. So we'll try out the Prism for a bit and see.

 

[mselenaous]

Some other places you can go for references or help (if you are not already familiar with them) would be rebreather specific sites like Rebreather World ( Rebreather Forums - Rebreather World ) or CCR Explorers ( CCR Explorers ), even Jill's web site ( Rebreather Pro ) has some good information. Where you can ask questions to some of the top people in the areas of particular units. I'm sure there are other forums I may not be familiar with. Do your homework & don't just go off of 1 source. Add Helium might give you a start but look for other sources too.

FYI: Rebreather World and The Deco Stop are both now owned and operated by Peter Sotis, the owner of Add Helium.

 

[pocky21]

To somewhat echo what was said earlier in this thread about barn building - When I was working as a mechanic, my bays were next to a guy with two massive top/bottom triple bank toolboxes, filled with damn near any tool you could buy off the scalper trucks (no offense to any Snap-On dealers here). He professed he could work on any vehicle from any year and either had or could get any tool to do it. The front of his toolboxes were littered with emblems that said "master", and the front office had damn near a whole wall filled with his credentials. When customers came walking through the shop, they saw those giant toolboxes and were quite perturbed if their car was not in front of one.

None of these were bad things - in fact they're all signs of experience, dedication, and a commitment to the trade. In this particular person's case, however, his most valuable tool of all was set on creating the appearance of the aforementioned things. Us other guys around the shop nicknamed him "boomerang", because his cars had a tenancy of coming back after a few days. I chose to specialize in light duty diesel, worked out of a 3'x2' shop cart for most of my career, and despite making 60% of his commision rate - still got a bigger check 4/5 weeks with a fraction of the come-backs.

We all get "wow-ed" by multiple certifications whether it be agencies, specialties, equipment, whatever. If I had 15 certifications in basket weaving, you'd probably assume I can weave a variety of baskets and do it darn well too. Impartiality is nice, but about the time I started saying "they're all just nuts and bolts" was about the time I burned out and quit. It's often much easier with specialized folks to separate the idiots from those who's belief or method has passed rigorous personal tests, are confident in what they know, and will admit their limitations. I'm a master auto tech, and I can give a thesis on diesel EGR and injection systems - but I can't tell the audible difference between a bad wheel bearing and a cupped tire like many others can, aside from what I read in the book that one's a "wrrrr" and the other a "brrrr"

I don't know my bottom from a hole in the wall when it comes to rebreathers (I'd like to!), but when weighing a service decision I don't like to argue for the jack of all trades - I like having the best do what they're best at. Might not be convenient, but not many people trust a plumber with electrical work because he's "done it a time or two". There are obviously exceptions, but I'm also running a special on wheel bearings this week

 

[Knotted Lion]

I'm a KISS instructor and have thought about crossing over to other rebreathers but I just don't see the point.

There's your answer! Teach what you believe in, and don't get distracted by what others are doing. When you stop believing KISS breathers are the best, then move on.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I'm not distracted by what others are doing and have no intention of going out and learning all these other rebreathers just so I can teach them. I'm happy with my current credentials. Although the title of this thread may imply otherwise I'm not really considering teaching several more rebreathers. I just thought it was a catchy title to attract more discussion. And it has.