Investment in R&D by rebreather manufacturers

[Nico-ITA]

Hello everyone,

I premise that I do not have a rebreather yet, but I am working on it.
After the first and most common thoughts, to date I am very much oriented on the JJ.
When I talk about common thoughts, I am referring for example to the type of rebreather, price, diffusion, agencies adopting it, etc..

Now I was making a different kind of consideration, one that does not necessarily look at the present, but rather at the near future.
I was wondering which rebreather manufacturers are actually investing (more than others) in R&D today and therefore might be at a greater advantage in a few years, perhaps introducing some new technology, model, or evolution of the current ones.

Since I mentioned JJ at the beginning, let's say the first thing that comes to mind is not a company with very active R&D (however, this is just the feeling of someone who knows nothing about rebreathers).

So I would like to know the views of those who have been in the Reb world for a some time, their opinions.


This kind of reflection came to my mind while listening to some talk on Rebreather forum 4, from which I made an important point, namely, that in the next few years there are likely to be major evolutions in the Rebteather world

Thanks
N

 

[LFMarm]

What comes to mind in terms of innovation is Poseidon for their O2 solid state sensors and AP for their temp stick. DiveRite (which I know better than others) is always improving their rebreathers with a few upgrades every year; I assume most manufacturers do the same though.

 

[grantmac]

Solid state sensors will be a big tipping point. Once Shearwater has native support the game will change.
JJ seems mostly focused on maintaining a product with good training support rather than innovation.

 

[admikar]

Other side of the coin is when will R&D become too much?
Most people here think Divesoft is going overboard with their fully redundant control boards.

 

[happy-diver]

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[Johnoly]

.. in a few years, perhaps introducing some new technology, model, or evolution of the current ones.

The biggest improvements will come from the entities with the MOST money to throw at it. For that you need to go outside at night and look straight up into the sky, cause that's where the all the serious money is being spent on RB's. As China, USA, India, etc, etc are launching space missions to get people to live on the moon & Mars, they will outspend all other companies combined on RB research. You need O2 in an RB and did you know that last month for the very first time they actually made pure O2 on Mars from it's CO2 !! {Moxie}

 

[Nico-ITA]

The biggest improvements will come from the entities with the MOST money to throw at it. For that you need to go outside at night and look straight up into the sky, cause that's where the all the serious money is being spent on RB's. As China, USA, India, etc, etc are launching space missions to get people to live on the moon & Mars, they will outspend all other companies combined on RB research. You need O2 in an RB and did you know that last month for the very first time they actually made pure O2 on Mars from it's CO2 !! {Moxie}

Indeed, companies that are more structured and have more funds certainly have the ability to invest more quickly and strongly in R&D. That then everything comes from the sky may well be, but talking about the near future, say 5 years from now, I do not expect new major players in underwater rebreathers (I hope I am wrong anyway) brought "from the sky."

The fact is that we must always remember that we are talking about a niche, in the niche, in the niche. What companies today have an interest in investing in scuba diving and have the clout and power to change things?
To me it seems like an industry that has been at a standstill for a long time, many years ago there were military interests that advanced equipment and technology even on a commercial level in a few years, today it is all stagnant.

In reference to the above, however, only one name comes to mind, namely that of the Head group, of which Mares is a part and therefore also the REVO.
So we are talking about a very structured group with investment possibilities.
Should they decide to invest, I think they would have the power to attack the rebreather market.


ps. just out of curiosity, I just tried to look up where the JJ-CCR, which is the machine I would like to buy, is produced. I'm probably wrong, but on google maps I see a small shed in the middle of the countryside of Denmark. Nothing detracts from the fact that the JJ is a great machine, but speaking of companies that have the ability to invest, let's say it's not the first one that comes to mind

 

[berndo]

Since I mentioned JJ at the beginning, let's say the first thing that comes to mind is not a company with very active R&D (however, this is just the feeling of someone who knows nothing about rebreathers).

CCRs are not phones so I'm not sure what kind of innovation you're looking for. Many people prefer a simple unit without a lot of functions and 'stuff'. The JJ hardware works just fine and it got an upgrade when DiveCan came out.

I think they would have the power to attack the rebreather market.

Why? I don't think so. As I said, it's not a smartphone people buy because something go supposedly 12% faster. CCR are very simple and that's a good thing.

BTW: JJ has the ability to invest.

 

[Nico-ITA]

CCRs are not phones so I'm not sure what kind of innovation you're looking for. Many people prefer a simple unit without a lot of functions and 'stuff'. The JJ hardware works just fine and it got an upgrade when DiveCan came out.


Why? I don't think so. As I said, it's not a smartphone people buy because something go supposedly 12% faster. CCR are very simple and that's a good thing.

BTW: JJ has the ability to invest.

I don't expect to compare rebreathers to phones.
As I had written, we are all aware that this world is a niche to the nth degree.

I don't know what the next possible innovation in the rebreather industry might be, and I don't know what to expect; in fact, I was asking those who have been in this world for some time.

So I would be curious to hear your opinion and, if you want a more specific question, what are the major innovations you expect for example in the next 5 years and who do you think will bring them forward among the major Reb manufacturers.

 

[berndo]

I don't expect to compare rebreathers to phones.
As I had written, we are all aware that this world is a niche to the nth degree.

I don't know what the next possible innovation in the rebreather industry might be, and I don't know what to expect; in fact, I was asking those who have been in this world for some time.

So I would be curious to hear your opinion and, if you want a more specific question, what are the major innovations you expect for example in the next 5 years and who do you think will bring them forward among the major Reb manufacturers.

It's got nothing to do with being niche. Innovation in the field doesn't necessarily need a ton of money or a major company. Virtually all rebreathers on the market now were deveopled by a couple of dudes in a workshop.
Fathom for instance is a fairly new ccr and it's very simple and doesn't have any gimmicks for a reason (I reckon, anyway). Pressure sensors in the head, He sensors, double solenoids, temp sticks are marketed as innovation but it's debateble if they're actually useful in real life.
I wanted either a JJ or a Fathom because they're simple and don't have any gimmicks can break.
If you had a company pumping money into this, you'd likely end up with a bunch of gimmicks. Look at Poseidon.
The Poseidon dico/7 was innovative but seems to have been a major commercial failure and nobody bought them.

Nobody knows what somebody will come up with in 3 or 5 years... rebreather hardware really hasn't changed much over the last 20 years or so... it's really just incremental changes over time like better HUDs, haptic alarms, electronics, etc. and I don't think we'll any major changes. After all, a ccr is a bucket and a bag with hoses... I don't see any major changes in functionality comming.