How much strobe is really necessary?

[jeepfifty]

Okay...so I flooded the strobe that I originally purchased with my camera and am in the market for a new one. I'm thinking that my budget for this purchase will be between $350-$500. I shoot with a Nikon Coolpix S1, in the Nikon housing, so it's got to be a slave strobe, with a good fiber-optic link.

Here's where my experience is...With previous strobes I've found myself over exposing real bad. So the strobe needs to either a) auto-meter or b) have a manual control for the flash power.

These are the strobes I'm looking at:

Sea&Sea YS-15Auto - Seems appropriate for a point and shoot, and seems to auto-adjust for proper exposure. Also seems a bit small and limiting in power.

Sea&Sea YS-27DX - Looks like it's got as much power as I could possibly need with a digital Point and Shoot. It's manual however, and I've got no real experience to guage the difficulty of deciding what would be appropriate lighting for any particular subject. My major concern here is frustration. If I underexpose on a shot, will I just get a black photo, or will I get an underexposed photo? I've heard that underexposed is easy to fix with photoshop, as opposed to overexposed. With this strobe I would have the option to bracket my photos and just choose the one with the best lighting after I'm out of the water - seems like a great concept...not sure it'll work with a point and shoot camera.

Thoughts? I'd really prefer the manual strobe I think, my fear is getting in the water and being unable to get the camera to capture ANYTHING. But I think the additional power would be particularly useful, and being able to bracket the photos would be great.

I'll upload a few pictures in case that would help with your deliberations .
Thanks everyone!

 

[pakman]

another quick tip, if you find that your point and shoot is overexposing and you don't have full manual control over shutter/ aperture, try adjusting the exposure compensation down to -1ev or even more (experiment with this). I'm not familiar with the Coolpix S1 but just did a quick google and it appears that the ev compensation is the only control you have other than WB.

What I couldn't find out is if the S1 emits a preflash. Looking briefly thru an old Inon D-2000 and more recent Z-240 manuals, I don't see the S1 listed, but looking at the other Nikon p&s's, looks like it might not emit a preflash. Regardless, if you went with a Inon D2000 (which will be on the highside of your budget) you should be able to set it to full manual and there is a magnet switch which is set depending on whether the camera emits pre-flash or not.

I'm not that familiar with the S&S line, but they have come out recently with a number of smaller/ lower end strobes that would fit well with p&s's. Same with Ikelite. Also maybe do a search on Sunpak G-flash. A cheap alternative, but not sure how well built it is...

Just did a quick read of the YS-27DX and it also has a preflash cancel switch like the Inon's and a manual level control which gives you 9 positions.

BTW, what strobe were you previously using (that caused the over exposure)?


edit: added some basic guide # info (I won't go into or want to start an argument about how accurate these numbers... )
Sea & Sea
YS-15Auto Guide Number (GN) =12 (100ISO/ air)
YS-27DX GN=20
Inon
D-2000S GN=20 (ISO100/ air x 1m) 100

 

[jeepfifty]

I was using the Fantasea CoolFlash setup. I wasn't real impressed with it...it fired real inconsistently, even with a fiber optic link. After looking at the guide numbers I'm leaning toward that YS-27DX...I'm just afraid of ending up with a bunch of all-black or all-white photos so poorly done that I end up not enjoying the dive. I guess my concern mainly lies with how the digital camera actually sees the image when it's expecting a flash of x magnitude. If it under exposes a little will it still grab some image so that I can make an appropriate adjustment on the strobe power level? Etc.

Any other ideas?

The D-2000S is also on the short list of consideration .

 

[jeepfifty]

and I guess I should point out that the pre-flash shouldn't be an issue. It only emits a single pre-flash prior to exposure, so the single-pre-flash cancellation isn't a limiting factor.

It seems that the YS-15Auto says something about having to set the camera to F2.8 for the "auto" feature to work. Since I can't do that...it's not a great feature I suppose.

Another consideration, when I eventually buy a camera with more manual options I'm going to want to carry-over the strobe...so future flexibility is important.

 

[AndyT]

I wouldn't waste money on one of the "smaller" strobes. They usually have limited coverage, especially for wide angle stuff. Rather try for something like the Ikelite DS 125 , Inon Z-240 or the S&S YS 110.

They will also grow with you if/when you upgrade your camera.

 

[dbh]

Ditto what Andy said!

You might as well spend the $$$ now, and the strobe will grow with your system. If you get a "cheapie" now, you will end up with one of the 3 he listed eventually. So what you paid for the "cheapie" will be wasted.

IMHO, you get what you pay for with strobes.

Dave

 

[Charlie99]

It seems that the YS-15Auto says something about having to set the camera to F2.8 for the "auto" feature to work. Since I can't do that...it's not a great feature I suppose.

That probably isn't as big a problem as it might seem. Most of the time when you are using flash as the main light source, the aperture is going to be fully opened on a point and shoot. Just go look at the EXIF data from a bunch of your photos and I'll bet that they will all be at the widest F-stop possible for whatever zoom focal length you have. If it isn't 2.8, but instead a bit higher (smaller) aperture, you can adjust by moving the exposure compensation up a bit.

The real problem with an "auto flash" is that it is doing its own exposure monitoring and turning off the flash when a sensor on the strobe has seen enough light for a 2.8 F stop. That may or may not always be the right amount of flash for what the camera is actually focussed on.

 

[alcina]

That probably isn't as big a problem as it might seem. Most of the time when you are using flash as the main light source, the aperture is going to be fully opened on a point and shoot. J

I think you mean "isn't" going to be fully opened...usually the aperture will be stopped down, not opened? I never shot my compacts with a wide open aperture and internal or external flash, always from f4ish or smaller.

Anywho...go to Yuzo info@naturephoto.co.jp and order an Inon 240 or similar - write him an email and he'll help. I just bought my 240 from him well within in your budget limits.

It has complete manual controls so you will be able to easily adjust how much light you are getting, it can be fibre optic for now and can move to a hard wired synch cable should you change systems and require one. You shouldn't have to replace something like this for years and years and years

 

[Charlie99]

I think you mean "isn't" going to be fully opened...usually the aperture will be stopped down, not opened? I never shot my compacts with a wide open aperture and internal or external flash, always from f4ish or smaller.

That's why I suggested that he go look at the EXIF data from a bunch of his photos.

Most of my flash shots on an Olympus Stylus 400 and 410 are at F3.1 if wide angle, and at the widest possible if zoomed. It has a wimpy onboard flash and so it goes full open to take full advantage of it.

Even in fairly brightly lit scenes and "forced flash" or fill flash commanded mode, the F-stop will be wide open, but then instead of 1/30sec shutter, it will go to as short as 1/500.

An automatic point and shoot doesn't always do what you'd like it to do.

----------------------------

I haven't tried using an auto strobe underwater, but a couple weeks ago I purchased a Phoenix D92-BZS auto strobe for occasional use topside. With very little user control of the Olympus Stylus 410 it is a bit tricky to get everything all balanced out, but it is doing a good job on what I got it for ---- to extend flash range a bit, to light up the background a bit better, and to do some bounce flash to soften up the light a bit when doing photos of several people in large rooms.

The auto flash isn't smart enough to mimic the preflash, and instead simply looks at the amount of light coming back into its sensor and cuts of the flash at what it thinks is the proper point. Zooming the flash does change both the spread of the beam and also adjusts the exposure upward when zoomed.

 

[alcina]

Thanks, Charlie! I missed the "auto" part of the equation as I don't use those modes and encourage others not to use them

I should have read things more carefully, sorry!