How those idiots (us) run out of air

[dumpsterDiver]

If your car gets 20 mpg and your fuel gauge says you have a quarter of your car's 15 gallon tank left, are you able to figure out how far you will get before you run out of gas?

If you see a sign that says, "next exit is last gas station for 100 miles", will you know what to do?

What about if a dive pro is in the back seat telling you not to worry and to "trust me". Would you ignore what you brain is telling you?

Somehow I have a lot of faith in the intelligence of average people (never mind a physics teacher) not to "fail" solving this problem even while they are half asleep.

How about.. you are almost out of gas in your car, but you are following a gasoline tanker truck across the desert and you know that if you don't turn around now and head back to the gas station you saw 20 miles ago, you will not make it to the next gas station... so instead of turning around, you follow the tanker truck, do a few differential equations related to the drag versus speed (in your head) and then try to chase down the truck, get him to pull over and sell you some gasoline (as your wife waves frantically out the window) ... without ever knowing if the truck has any fuel left (or even if you can catch it)..

 

[TSandM]

Bill, I hope you and Emily are having a ball in Bonaire, and that you are subjecting yourselves to the surface swim you have to do if you do a few direct ascents from, say, 20 feet.

You don't HAVE to shoot a bag to do a direct ascent. I did a good many of them off our charter boats in Puget Sound, before I ever saw a bag or got taught to use one, and certainly WAY before I could view deploying one safely as a routine event. You watch your gauge and you ascend at a controlled rate. Most of mine, in the beginning, involved losing my buddy and getting vertigo . . . but they were still somewhat controlled, even if I didn't enjoy them much.

When someone takes an OW class in a lot of places, that person gets trained to dive in a pool, and gets shown how to do a simple shore dive at a sheltered site. If you are lucky enough to learn somewhere where you have to do your OW dives off a boat, you'll learn more about descents and ascents, and how to find the boat and get back on it. But the person doing his OW dives off a boat will not learn about how to assess an entry for safety, or to select the best point to get in; he won't learn about surf or how to manage it.

Nobody comes out of OW with all the skills they need to be a well-rounded diver. We ALL had a lot to learn when we got our cards. And sometimes it's very difficult to know which hurdles will have to be jumped to get through a given dive in a safe fashion. I don't think it's rare for a novice diver to make a mistake assessing his own fitness for a given dive; and I think it's reprehensibly common for the dive professionals involved to reassure a marginal diver that "everything will be fine". The result is dives like the original story. In this case, a pair of what seem to be thoughtful and reflective people had a bad situation turn out okay, and learned something from it, and posted it so OTHER folks could learn the basic lesson, which is not to stay underwater when you are low on gas. A lesson which seems entirely intuitive, but apparently is not.

Regarding the video of the GUE OW class that beano goes on and on about . . . HERE is that video. Beano objects to the occasional instability of the divers -- you can see them briefly lose their balance and regain it. According to her, if the instructor talked less and did some kind of kinesthetic teaching, the students wouldn't wobble. My experience from teaching in Puget Sound is that these guys are rock stars for students doing their OW dives in dry suits. Have a look and see what you think, and how those students compare with what you see coming out of typical open water classes.

 

[eelnoraa]

After all, the GUE OW video is just a bunch of bad ocean behaviors on entry and exits on display, most of which centered on the fact that no one in the video was ever shown preparing to get in the water. Not the instructor, not the assistants, not the students. ANd it showed in their utterly sloppy ocean behavior. (Behavior that would be dangerous in most ocean conditions, like, say the ocean conditions the OP was in) .

You must have never taken any of the GUE/UTD classes. I would go as far to say you have must have never seen a group of GUE or UTD divers diving.

OW students are students, so they can be good divers or bad divers. But I found it very hard to believe a GUE/UTD instructor can be described as "sloppy" in ocearn, or any water for that matter.

 

[TSandM]

eelnoraa, beano has a kind of unique attitude toward shore diving. Since she dives and teaches in a place where there are waves, she is very adamant about having her students be prepared for them at all times (which makes sense). She has them with a regulator in their mouths from the moment they approach the water, and never allows them to turn their backs on the ocean (which is wise).

We dive and teach in Puget Sound, and we wait until ferry wakes go by before getting in the water. We make sure our students have tested their regulators, and that their BCs are well inflated before they get their feet wet, but we don't insist that they walk in with regs in their mouths, and I'm quite sure I don't pay a great deal of attention to where they are facing at all times. It's my believe that, when our students get to places where they shore dive in surf, they will be smart enough to get some coaching from someone who understands surf entries. You can't teach everything on earth in an OW class, so you teach to the conditions you have.

What's different about beano is that she (sort of like DCBC) thinks that you should teach students as though they were going to be diving in conditions they don't face, and if you don't do so, you are falling short of a professional's duty. So the GUE OW video, which shows students facing the instructor while standing in the water, is to her an example of unprofessional conduct on the part of the instructor. Most of the rest of us would look at the absolutely flat water and not worry about it much.

 

[mikeycanuk]

We've rented a condo in Coz for next year and was talking to the owner on the phone for about an hour. We both had young son's who dive (mine was 10, now 12 his was 15). Anyway somehow his son ran out of air and went for his dad's octopus. Problem was he choked on some water, panicked, and bolted for the surface -holding his breath. Thankfully dad rushed up to grab him and bring him down. Just in time as they went to the hospital later and could see the stretch marks in his lungs. Only reading the new Undercurrent book did I realize how close to death he came. His son did one more dive again and decided to quit. I know you shouldn't rely strictly on gear but the small fortune I spend on our 3 Atomic Cobalts computers are cheap insurance as they sure make a racket at 500ps- we also make sure he checks is air on a reg. basis during a dive.

 

[flots am]

. . . and I think it's reprehensibly common for the dive professionals involved to reassure a marginal diver that "everything will be fine".

From the day I was certified, every single dive I've ever been on that had a DM, boat captain, trip leader or anything else besides me and my buddy, has told me "everything will be fine."

This includes a dive op on Grand Cayman that said it to me and a brand new diver I brought along, right before a fatality on another "trust me" dive there, and a dive op on Cozumel when I was first certified and not even remotely qualified, as well as the dive op that actually sank the boat I was on.

This deplorable practice continues to this very day, even on dives that I know for certain "won't be fine".

The only one that had the integrity to say "no" was a long time ago, the Dive Op at John Pennekamp (don't remember their name) who told me that a dive I wanted to do on the Spiegel Grove wasn't appropriate for me and put me on a boat to a really shallow wreck nearby where I had a ball. Only later did I find out that people regularly got blown off the SG and a number had died.

I wish there was a way to get everybody to stop saying "everything will be fine", but it will never happen because it costs them money.

flots

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

From the day I was certified, every single dive I've ever been on that had a DM, boat captain, trip leader or anything else besides me and my buddy, has told me "everything will be fine."

This includes a dive op on Grand Cayman that said it to me and a brand new diver I brought along, right before a fatality on another "trust me" dive there, and a dive op on Cozumel when I was first certified and not even remotely qualified, as well as the dive op that actually sank the boat I was on.

This deplorable practice continues to this very day, even on dives that I know for certain "won't be fine".

The only Dive Op that had the integrity to say "no" was a long time ago, the Dive Op at John Pennekamp (don't remember their name) who told me that a dive I wanted to do on the Spiegel Grove wasn't appropriate for me and put me on a boat to a really shallow wreck nearby where I had a ball. Only later did I find out that people regularly got blown off the SG and a number had died.

I wish there was a way to get everybody to stop saying "everything will be fine", but it will never happen because it costs them money.

flots

... I wrote an article on that very subject less than a year ago ...

ScubaBoard - Scuba Diving Forum - Diving Social Network - Don't Worry - It Will Be OK

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[danvolker]

It's Like the line people use I hate....... "I'ts all good"..... what a load of cr%p....usually it guarantees whoever is saying it does not want to think or process anything related to what they are reacting to.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I often grumble (to myself) about what I perceive to be over-moderating of this forum (particularly within the Basic Scuba Section). However, this thread seems to have been allowed to drift and wander in topic and also take a somewhat harsher tone. Even silly analogies (which could have been perceived as disrespectful, or off topic) where allowed.

In any regard, I thought that the somewhat more “intense” dialog was beneficial (if not essential) in that the OP seemed to FINALLY buy into much that was said, but only after hearing it multiple times, from very diverse people, explaining it many different ways. In some similar situations, I’ve seen the “dog pilling” card be thrown by moderators.

I personally think the thread, the topic and the tone were appropriate for the Basic Scuba Forum and I think it was wise to allow people a little more latitude in expressing their opinions.

 

[billt4sf]

Bill, I hope you and Emily are having a ball in Bonaire, and that you are subjecting yourselves to the surface swim you have to do if you do a few direct ascents from, say, 20 feet.

Most of mine, in the beginning, involved losing my buddy and getting vertigo . . . but they were still somewhat controlled, even if I didn't enjoy them much.

We have done two so far and they were easy for me and for emily too -- no current, no surge, from 25 ft with a safety stop in route. No significant problem that I saw, but Emily got motion sick from the second ascent ( which was the third dive of the day). Mind you, she can get sick from turning around in the kitchen.

She has had water coming into her mask continually, even when there is no hair there. She has used that mask for a year (including last week) with no problems. Maybe the loss of vision.led to the vertigo. At one point she was futzing with her mask and slipped to the surface from 25 ft and then came back down. I'm sorry to say that I missed the whole thing. We do try to keep close buddy contact. Maybe we need some pointers there.

When we are all calm we easily hover at10 ft. Even 5ft.

What should we try next?

Bill