I Need a camera for research

[LakerPride]

I am not too familiar with photography, but I am about to become familiar. I am a Fisheries Biology student, and I need a camera to take pictures at depths to 250' I have no idea what I am looking for. I have a Canon dSLR the T2, and can work it on land, but I doubt I am getting the best out of it. Also the wife won't let it go underwater. I need to be able to take high res pictures of damage caused by invasive species, so I need light and clarity. What direction should I go here???

Here is the kicker, it will be included in my grant expense so I am trying to keep overall expense to 1200 or less for camera, case, and all other accessories. There is a little wiggle room there but not a ton. So what are my options? I don't need the Go Go Gadget camera, but I need to be able to bring back good scientific data. Thanks

 

[ivakdiver]

So many good choices. I currently have a Canon S100 in a waterproof case that I use with great results.
I have an older model Sea Life camera, with wide angle lens and strobe which takes very good photos as well. I am in Ontario, so subject matter would be similar.
Depth would be a limiting factor, however, and you would probably need an aluminum housing. Are you diving to those depths? I can't imagine a student being asked to do that.
An aluminum housing can be quite expensive and that's not even including the price of a camera.

 

[Mark Derail]

You can check out the project OpenROV.com

If the quality doesn't have to be high, then video could do the trick.

A HD quality video can produce 1280x720 or 1920x1080 pictures, that's like 2MP - 3MP. The only reason you'd go with a camera to take still pictures would be for higher def, like 8MP or higher.
That greatly increases costs as you need one or two "flashes" called strobes.

By going video, you build a "torpedo" and put at the end of a 250' yellow nylon rope, deploy from a boat, using a "cheap" video camera inside the torpedo, like a GoPro HD w/UW housing, paired with a cheap UW LED flashlight (or two or three).

You put the GoPro w/UW housing in another "homemade" housing with the flashlights into a TUBE of say 8 to 12 inches diameter. Seal one end with extra thick plexiglass & silicone glue used for aquariums.

The other end you screw into the TUBE with the appropriate "adapter". Think plastic ABS tubing. You screw in an endcap that has a black rubber seal. Use a Big Wrench.
Fins on your torpedo - optional, might help steady the camera if there's current. Will look totally badass. Don't forget a paintjob.

Now the hard part - the tube needs to be partially filled with rocks to sink properly to offset the air inside the tube. Water WILL get in, which is why you use UW flashlights, and a GoPro with UW housing.
That are rated for 100' or 40M.

You're going deeper, so build a housing around the housing, to withstand the extra pressure. It will take awhile for the trapped air to leak out, thus giving you sufficient time to aim and record something.

Send it to 250' w/o the electronics, and after 30 mins, bring it back up quickly to see how much water accumulated inside. You want to time it that with (protected) electronics inside the housing doesn't fully flood, say halfway max.
Bring it up, empty it, send it back down, etc.

You should be able to build the "torpedo like" housing for less than 200$, the GoPro HD w/housing is what, 500$? 600$?
UW LED flashlights are cheap. I just bought one for 49$. The more the merrier.

You can also swap out the White LEDS for UV LED's, you might get better results. Also, find a "nerd" in your area that will slave with you for free, in exchange for bragging rights. Search for them in a local college (IT, electronics), your local Craigslist, or a comic book store.

This post is inspired by the XKCD cartoonist / nerd and I believe scientist. Submarines | xkcd

 

[supergaijin]

$1200 or less for use at the depths you're mentioning will be difficult to find new. Many cheaper housings aren't designed for use at that depth, and you'll be needing some external light sources. 2nd hand is probably the only solution and even then, you'll need some luck to find a decent setup IMO.

Potentially the Canon Powershot S90 or S95 may come down in price following the release of the S100.

The housings are generally in the US$500+ range.
A Sea and Sea Ys-01 strobe with a tray and arm is approx $700. If you're looking for quantity as opposed to quality of pictures, a video light may be appropriate and can usually be found cheaper.

 

[LakerPride]

I am not being asked to dive at all, as a matter of fact it is entirely up to me, and on top of that the University is making me sign a waiver and carry insurance in order to dive at all in conjunction with my research. I chose that depth because several areas that I want to include in my findings lie between 200-250 ffw. I like the ROV idea but I need to be able to take samples from the areas where we are diving. I am getting the idea that I either need to up the amount of money I'm willing to put into the rig or decrease the depth at which I operate. My bottom line is, no matter what the depth I take it from, I need clear distinct pictures. I need to be able to take measurements from them and use these pictures in presentations, lastly I am talking about some objects being as small as 1.5" diameter. I will modify my requirements a little and limit my dives to no deeper than 200 ffw, and up my price range to max 2000.

 

[Mark Derail]

Wow. Just won't happen. You need a new tactic - rent an rov. You won't be able to afford a single dive to send a trained human that deep, and ask him to focus on particulars to take pictures.

Find an ROV owner / operator and pay him. Not per hour, but explain your project & budget. Perhaps you can use PADI or NAUI to find such a person; or this board do searches on ROV. Hopefully you'll find someone that's willing to participate.

If you don't agree - reread my previous post. That's the best you can do. You can make a double-tube torpedo, where the second one (filled with air) has a trap door that when you pull another rope, the 2nd tube is 'opened' and thus sucks in a certain amount of water. Then release, trap door closes, bringing up a water sample.

However the best trap doors would be electric, based on a screw turned activated by an electric motor. The pressure at 200-250 is impressive. Thus extra costs, extra skills required.

FWIW, an aluminum housing for a DSLR camera - just the housing - costs more than 2k$. Then to remotely activate it??? Impossible, you'd have to put the DSLR in auto-shoot mode, a pic every second, that will stop only when the SD card is filled up, or you retrieve and stop it.

How to focus on tiny organisms? Auto focus cameras in the Point & Shoot style won't work well if they are moving. That is why video is so much easier. Less light is required - because the pixel density is much smaller - each pixel is bigger.

I am not being asked to dive at all, as a matter of fact it is entirely up to me, and on top of that the University is making me sign a waiver and carry insurance in order to dive at all in conjunction with my research. I chose that depth because several areas that I want to include in my findings lie between 200-250 ffw. I like the ROV idea but I need to be able to take samples from the areas where we are diving. I am getting the idea that I either need to up the amount of money I'm willing to put into the rig or decrease the depth at which I operate. My bottom line is, no matter what the depth I take it from, I need clear distinct pictures. I need to be able to take measurements from them and use these pictures in presentations, lastly I am talking about some objects being as small as 1.5" diameter. I will modify my requirements a little and limit my dives to no deeper than 200 ffw, and up my price range to max 2000.

Now if budget wasn't a limit - like the James Cameron dive - he had multiple cameras, most likely in multiple modes & focus ranges, shooting video.

In doing similar but for less money, imagine a 3 foot sealed bubble that can withstand the pressure. Inside the sphere you place a bunch of cameras like GoPro's, pointing in multiple directions.

Wow, taking samples... Just water? Soil? Organisms? Won't be easy.

 

[LakerPride]

We are testing algae blooms, and resource degradation due to other invasive species. My specific focus is to measure the depth of intrusion of Byssus of the Dreissena polymorpha into cultural relics (shipwrecks). I need to be able to dive to complete my work, If I have to stay at a certain depth because of lack of expertise then I need to find the person willing to teach me to do it myself. I won't stop though, and as you said I cannot afford to pay for a submersible, not to mention this is Great Lakes based, so the funding is not on the level of Marine study. I may not be able to get to 200 feet, but I am currently diving regularly to 140-150 ffw. I am not trying to be rude or confrontational at all, but I will worry about the diving aspect of it, I was just looking for a recommendation for a platform to withstand my depths. The reason I have to have great pictures is because as we all know the State of Michigan "owns" all the wrecks within it's waters and I cannot salvage samples, even for scientific testing, so I have to study it in its environment and bring back photos for later study. As far as samples go, I will collect algae, water, sediment, and tissue samples by hand. I apologize in advance if I am coming across terse, I hate trying to converse via forums as its hard to differentiate emotion. I appreciate your help

 

[Mark Derail]

Laker - insofar as emotions are concerned - just don't use any.

I try with my nerdy experience to give you ideas, something that can possibly work within your budget. If your same "study" was within recreational diving limits - that you dive at - it would be a different ballgame. Any cheap P&S camera with a housing rated to 40M will be fine. Numbered Ziplocks closed empty of air, use a syringe to gather water at specific locations and inject in the ziplocks partially.

A non-powered ROV (basically a tethered picture box) like I described is cheap, can be easily improved upon. However a GoPro (HD or normal) is a "pinhole" style camera - you cannot focus (fixed focus) - it's minimal focal point is beyond 1 foot.

I've exhausted my ideas, good luck with your project. I still think your best bet is video, high illumination, a torpedo-cam tethered to a boat moving slowly. Out of thousands of frames, some should be ok, an exercise in patience for sure.

The XKCD project was to use a "smart" computer and ethernet cable to relay digital in real-time, so you would not be "blind".

Last thought !!! What an ambitious project! Good luck.

 

[Larry C]

Are you tech certified? Before you can dive to 250ft., you'll need dive training and at least about 500 dives before you even think about tech diving (130ft. and deeper). Tech diving requires carrying doubles and breathing advanced nitrox (helium mix). Count on spending about $1200 for training alone and no one will rent you equipment without certification. You'll need an experienced tech dive buddy and a live boat in case of current. Are you dry suit certified. A dry suit is $800 to $3000, and you'll need a warm undergarment ($200-$400). Oh, and a tech fill for one dive will run you about $75-100.
I think you need to modify your research parameters to allow shallower dive sites (<100ft.) Then you can buy a really nice point and shoot camera like the S100, a factory housing and a decent strobe for about the $1200 you're talking about.

 

[LakerPride]

Larry I appreciate your advice, but that is exactly what I am trying to avoid by posting in the Photography section. I am Nitrox, Trimix, Dry Suit certified, I have a little over 400 dives. I am diving with a TDI certified wreck and advanced wreck, trimix, advanced trimix and deco diver. I own all my own equipment, I follow a DIR system as does he. I have dove with him before and trust him. I will be diving primarily to depths between 100-150 ffw, but there are two sites in particular where I need to collect data, that lie 180-210 ffw and 200-240 ffw respectively. I have until May of 2014 to complete my dives, after which I must compile my data for presentation by April of 2015.