"ICE" your cell phone - Worth reading...

[cornfed]

I still can't really get behind the whole ICE concept. Having enough experience in the field, someone's cell phone is the last of my concerns on any scene. If someone's in bad enough shape that they can't answer questions than I have other things that are far more important to worry about.

My thoughts too. It's kinda like searching the bushes for keys to the house while you've got fire blowing out the windows.

 

[cdiver2]

I got an e-mail yesterday saying that this is a hoax. Take it for what you will...

I don't know who you got your e-mail from but this came from a local TV news channel


Possible ICE on Florida roads
Sunday, July 24, 2005
The recent bombings in London gave a British paramedic an idea.

The idea was to put a ICE -- In Case of Emergency -- numbers in cell phones.

If the cell phone owner had an accident or medical condition that prevented him or her from telling medical personnel the names of family members to call, the responder could simply look under ICE in the cell phone for the right number.

The ICE idea came from British paramedic Bob Brotchie after the recent London terrorist bombings. When Brotchie responded to bombing scenes, he often didn't know which phone number to call to get important information about the patient.

Brotchie thought it would be a good idea if there was a nationally recognized name for people to file next-of-kin phone numbers under in their cell phones, and the ICE campaign was born.

The campaign is growing. It's circulating throughout the globe, including into the Bay area, through the Internet.

Polk County resident Roger Wise says he plans to program an ICE number in his cell phone.

"I think it's a good idea," Wise said.

But Bob Jackson, a supervisor with Polk County Emergency Medical Services, says he doesn't think the ICE numbers would be of any use to paramedics in the U.S.

"I don't want them (family members) coming to the scene," Jackson said. "We're going to be off the scene quicker (if family isn't there). "And it doesn't help to have extra people on the scene upset, understandably upset, but still sometimes in the way."

And there's another problem. Paramedics have HIPAA laws to follow. Those laws generally prohibit the disclosing of health information to other parties, even family members, without a patient's consent.

"I can't give them information," Jackson said. "I can ask them, but I can't tell them what happened to the patient, by law."

Jackson agrees there are some situations where an ICE number programmed into a cell phone would come in handy, such as when a person has a stroke. Bystanders can contact that person's family.

Jackson also gave another example.

"I had an Alzehiemer's patient who left the house to get cigarettes in Sarasota," he said. "We picked him up here in Haines City. I could call the family and say, 'We have your husband. Where do you live?' Because he didn't know where he lived."

While having an ICE number programmed in a cell phone can't be of help in every situation, some say it also can't hurt. Brotchie, the British paramedic, said he's already heard of success stories where a programmed ICE number helped emergency workers gather important information about a patient quickly.

 

[cdiver2]

you aren't circumventing HIPPA. Implied consent is there for adults who physically cannot give consent (ie. are unconscious, mentally impaired, etc) or for minors when parents/guardians cannot be contacted or delay of treatment would result in loss of life. This differs from informed consent which is voluntary.

Unless you are wearing something that states not to treat you (ie. a DNR band) and they fish you out of the sea, you are going to be treated (of course taking local protocol into account). The DAN tag will just help them in the information gathering process.

Either way, how does this violate patients privacy? By the way, for information on what HIPPA actually is/does, look here: http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa

thats arguing the point about HIPPA. What made me ask the question is a paramedic in another post said he would not be able to give any information to someone from the ICE contact as it is against HIPPA. My take on it is if you have DAN, CHUD, ICE you have given permission to discus your medical problems/status with the contact person

 

[mstudley]

thats arguing the point about HIPPA. What made me ask the question is a paramedic in another post said he would not be able to give any information to someone from the ICE contact as it is against HIPPA. My take on it is if you have DAN, CHUD, ICE you have given permission to discus your medical problems/status with the contact person

Right, because you are giving out patient information over the phone which goes against the HIPPA regulations. The contact person will be notified and can give information to EMS but no the other way around. Same thing for calling on the status of a relative at a hospital. Unless you are on a contact list kept at the hospital for that patient (which is different than having a number in your cell phone) you cannot get information regarding that patient over the phone.

 

[cdiver2]

Right, because you are giving out patient information over the phone which goes against the HIPPA regulations. The contact person will be notified and can give information to EMS but no the other way around. Same thing for calling on the status of a relative at a hospital. Unless you are on a contact list kept at the hospital for that patient (which is different than having a number in your cell phone) you cannot get information regarding that patient over the phone.

Understand.

I have found that HIPPA can work against you, I have to give blood for a PSA every six months, my family DR rights the scrips but I need the results to go to the specialist as well as my family DR. The lab said no only to the DR writing the scrip... HIPPA. I then said ok send the results to me and I will make sure that the specialist & family DR get them...no HIPPA can only go to the DR writing the scrip !!!!!. My test, I pay for it and I can not get the results?

 

[medic001918]

HIPPA works to protect intentional misgiving of information with regard to your condition. It applies primarily to healthcare providers. I am allowed to gather as much information as I can, but I have to be VERY selective in terms of what I give out for information to prevent myself from writing a check to someone in court. I am only allowed to give information to those involved directly in patient care (my partner, a nurse, MD, etc).
There is a large problem with using the phone to obtain permission to treat or getting refusal of treatment. How do I know who I'm talking to on the other end of the phone? Now I'm putting blind faith that you are my patients parent/guardian. If you say don't treat him, and you're really the babysitter and the child has a negative outcome...someone has a whole lot of explaining to do. If the parents are not there, or some other family member of age to sign my form and take over responsibility for the patient than the decisions are being left up to me. There is ZERO room for arguement in that case. It's too dangerous to everyone involved to take the chance in today's litigation motivated society. I've worked far to hard to get where I have in my career to blow it by making a silly decision like that.
Once again, if you want your contact information known keep an In case of emergency contact card with your license in your wallet. I have one in my wallet.
Shane

 

[mstudley]

Understand.

I have found that HIPPA can work against you, I have to give blood for a PSA every six months, my family DR rights the scrips but I need the results to go to the specialist as well as my family DR. The lab said no only to the DR writing the scrip... HIPPA. I then said ok send the results to me and I will make sure that the specialist & family DR get them...no HIPPA can only go to the DR writing the scrip !!!!!. My test, I pay for it and I can not get the results?

You can get the test results from your doctor who can then pass it on to the specialist. The information is transferred to your doctor/specialist through secure, HIPPA compliant means which "regular people" do not have. Mail can be stolen, intercepted, lost, etc. We've already established that the phone is insecure.

HIPPA is protecting YOU. It does make things inconvenient at times (for citizens, EMS, doctors, hospital staff, walk-in ER staff, etc) but security and convenience usually don't go together that well.

 

[shooter61]

I just had a guy in the shop who custom ordered from e-bay for like $3.00 dog tags that he will be diving with.

 

[Kayla]

I have had this in my phone for awhile. I got it from an officer that I know... and while its not something that I think would help in the very beginning on an emergeny, when the first priority is the victim and how to take care of them, I belive it may help in the long run.. If the person is unable to speak, or is in fact killed... the persons belongings are going to be collected at some time.. and there it is.. a contact. I have both my mom and dad listed as ICE- Mom, Kim and ICE- Dad, Bruce.... pretty self explanitory. It may not help, but it sure cant hurt.. so I leave it there!!

(This was also a news story here, a month or so ago....)

K

 

[TSandM]

I agree with the paramedics who have weighed in here -- they aren't going to spend any critical time even looking for my cell phone, let alone trying to call anyone. This will happen once the patient is at the hospital.

But I, at least, dive with a buddy, and I at least hope that any mishap that befalls me will NOT simultaneously befall my buddy. And part of my pre-dive briefing to my buddy is where my car keys are, where my cell phone is, and the fact that I have an ICE number. I figure my buddy will take the time to make the call, if no one else can. (I also ask my buddy the same questions.)