If you could change one thing about dive training...

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How many people swim in the world? Hundreds of millions?

How many DIR divers are there?
Your 9s comes out to 9,999,999,999 out of 10,000,000,000 of swimmers share the same definition of flutter and scissor kicking. Wibble's definition is odd, but not quite that odd.
 
Your 9s comes out to 9,999,999,999 out of 10,000,000,000 of swimmers share the same definition of flutter and scissor kicking. Wibble's definition is odd, but not quite that odd.
I was trying to make a point. That's all.
 
Even in swimming the scissor kick is pretty useless compared with frog kick breaststroke.

I can swim for ages using breaststroke as it's so efficient compared with a few lengths with front crawl.
 
Getting back on track, is it a fair summary that one or more people would like to see multiple finning techniques?

I personally believe in frog and the non GUE definition of flutter kicks to be taught in open water. All the kicks covered in fundies belong in a <insert agency name> buoyancy course (though finning isn't about buoyancy).
 
Even in swimming the scissor kick is pretty useless compared with frog kick breaststroke.

I can swim for ages using breaststroke as it's so efficient compared with a few lengths with front crawl.
The freestyle/front crawl is clearly more efficient as that is what distance swimmers use. The breaststroke is much more forgiving in terms of imperfect form for noon advanced swimmers.
 
Even in swimming the scissor kick is pretty useless compared with frog kick breaststroke.

I can swim for ages using breaststroke as it's so efficient compared with a few lengths with front crawl.
Again, you are talking about the flutter kick. You don't use a scissors kick in the Australian or American crawl (aka front crawl, aka freestyle).

For anyone interested in the history of competitive swimming strokes, there was a short period where the sidestroke developed into something like a modern crawl arm stroke with a scissors kick. But it was called the trudgen after its inventor, not the crawl. It was popular in freestyle competitions from the 1880s until a new stroke was introduced to the world by Australian Richard Cavill winning the 1902 International Championship. This new stroke, eventually named the "Australian crawl", used the arm motion of the trudgen with a 2 beat flutter kick instead of the scissors kick. The "American crawl" was a later derivation that uses a 6 beat kick, mostly for sprint events.
 
Getting back on track, is it a fair summary that one or more people would like to see multiple finning techniques?

I personally believe in frog and the non GUE definition of flutter kicks to be taught in open water. All the kicks covered in fundies belong in a <insert agency name> buoyancy course (though finning isn't about buoyancy).
Could (should?) be called the "Core Diving Skills" course to include all three: buoyancy, trim and finning.
 
Could (should?) be called the "Core Diving Skills" course to include all three: buoyancy, trim and finning.
I like it. Though trim and buoyancy should be taught in open water. Just not all finning techniques for the short courses that exist today.
 
I like it. Though trim and buoyancy should be taught in open water. Just not all finning techniques for the short courses that exist today.
Leave out the scissor kick then :wink:

Joking aside, the real challenge is that you cannot "learn" core skills in a single short course; you have to "earn" the skills with plenty of practice. But... once you've invested that time and effort, everything's so much easier.

Never understood why students can't take a course and then "pay" for mentoring over several weeks. OK, this is more for learning at home, but it's a chance for DiveMasters to show their core skills and earn some respect as a mentor (assuming they have the exemplary core skills in the first place).
 
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