If you could change one thing about dive training...

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To be clear, I understand the e-learning saves instructor's time, and lets them focus on hands-on, and that agencies provide some level of (debatable) quality control.
When e-Learning first came out, the shop I was working for refused to allow it. After awhile, it allowed it on an experimental basis with a couple of instructors. The results were so good that they allowed it for anyone. My experience was that it was maybe the 12th such student that finally missed a question on the final exam for me. Eventually the shop required it for all students.

I left that shop shortly after that for unrelated reasons and went to a different shop. At the second shop, I went through the full sequence again. That shop now does nothing but e-Learning because the students learn the content so much better that way.
There are a few ways to approach this, but I think a decent start would be tutoring. Sure, you don't get a certification card, but I personally don't take classes for some certification card or achievement. Perhaps have a session focused on finning techniques, bouyancy, or other similar specific skills. You could even do things like bi-weekly or weekly group classes, where you go over random intermediate skills. Perhaps offer enough of a discount for the people who show up to every class, to incentivize attendance even for those who already know the skills covered. Instructors could probably make more money, while students are also paying less.
There's a lot to be said for such an idea. When I decide I need a golf lesson, it is a lot like this. I have advocated similar approaches in the past for simple skill improvement.

Here's where the comparison breaks down. The golf instructor is not teaching you skills that could result in your death. The golf instructor will not be sued if you keel over and die while working on your putting skills.

Years ago another instructor and I independently developed a workshop much like you describe. When we learned that we had each done it, we conferred and made the workshops identical. Then he got advice from an attorney telling him to stop doing it. He said that if something--anything--were to happen to the student during a session, he could be sued. In that suit, the burden would be on him to prove that whatever he was doing was safe and within standard instructional practices. He would be on his own in this. If he were instead teaching an agency-approved program, he could still be sued, but he would not have to prove that what he was teaching was safe. The fact that the agency approved it would mean it was within standard instructional practices. His agency would join in his defense.

So he got the workshop approved by PADI as a distinctive specialty, and I joined him in doing that. It is essentially the same workshop as before, but every bit of it has now been examined by PADI experts and given the seal of approval. I have also had a course called Understanding Overhead Environments approved by PADI. The goal of the class is to explain the differences between various overhead environments so they can see why it may be OK for them to go through a simple coral swim-through but not a cave. Getting that approved by PADI was not easy; you can bet every word in that curriculum was scrutinized to make sure I was not teaching anything dangerous. I would not dream of teaching such a course without agency approval.

Just to give an example, let's say I am tutoring you and decide that the old "ditch and don" exercise would be a good learning experience for you. I have you go to the bottom of the deep end end of the pool, take off all your gear, swim to the surface, then dive down to retrieve your gear. That used to be a common experience in scuba classes. So you go down to the bottom, ditch your gear, and go to the surface, but you hold your breath on the way up and die from a gas embolism. When I am sued, the plaintiff's lawyer will show that pretty much all agencies have dropped that exercise because they believe it is too dangerous, so I will have to convince a jury that my belief in the safety of that exercise is superior to the judgment of pretty much all the agencies in the world. If instead I had made that part of the curriculum that I submitted to my agency for approval, they would have required me to take it out and told me why.
 
@boulderjohn

What if a certified diver approached you and asked to hire you for an hour in the pool to help adjust gear so he/she would be in trim? Would you accommodate that person or insist they take a formal course like Peak Performance Buoyancy?

What if they just wanted to learn how to improve their frog kick and learn how to back kick? Is there even a course for that?
 
@boulderjohn

What if a certified diver approached you and asked to hire you for an hour in the pool to help adjust gear so he/she would be in trim? Would you accommodate that person or insist they take a formal course like Peak Performance Buoyancy?

What if they just wanted to learn how to improve their frog kick and learn how to back kick? Is there even a course for that?
I think there's a difference between teaching stupid $#1t and teaching things that are already in courses of the same or different agencies. If an instructor prudently has an approach with a student with ensuring that fundamentals are met (proper weighting, including distribution) before moving on in a gradual pace, the probability of an incident is super small.

I'm not a fan of the "no video cameras" in open water instruction. Yes, I know training deaths occurred in the past due to an instructor distracted taking video of other things than students. I don't see how a Paralenz camera on my mask is a distraction as I'm not a moron to not pay attention to my students. The purpose of the footage I would like to record is to show the student what I see during surface intervals and discuss. Video is an excellent teaching tool. But because some idiots in the past took video of fish, I can't during open water. I do however use it when allowed.

This just gets into the issue of doing really dumb things and/or not being able to maintain control. The latter being an issue with not managing student's comfort and equipment (the death in Montana last November is a sad example).
 
I think there's a difference between teaching stupid $#1t and teaching things that are already in courses of the same or different agencies. If an instructor prudently has an approach with a student with ensuring that fundamentals are met (proper weighting, including distribution) before moving on in a gradual pace, the probability of an incident is super small.

I'm not a fan of the "no video cameras" in open water instruction. Yes, I know training deaths occurred in the past due to an instructor distracted taking video of other things than students. I don't see how a Paralenz camera on my mask is a distraction as I'm not a moron to not pay attention to my students. The purpose of the footage I would like to record is to show the student what I see during surface intervals and discuss. Video is an excellent teaching tool. But because some idiots in the past took video of fish, I can't during open water. I do however use it when allowed.

This just gets into the issue of doing really dumb things and/or not being able to maintain control. The latter being an issue with not managing student's comfort and equipment (the death in Montana last November is a sad example).
Perhaps agencies could allow the inclusion of a dedicated cameraman during instruction. In this way the instructor would not be distracted and you could get your footage. Alternatively, you could plant a tripod on the bottom prior to class. Ziptie about 20lbs to the bottom of each leg, make sure the camera is set to ultra wide angle and let it run unattended. Then after class, someone could fetch it. If it's the pool portion, you could install a permanent gopro mount on the pool. I'm sure you could either buy or make a gopro mount adapter for your paralenz.
 
Perhaps agencies could allow the inclusion of a dedicated cameraman during instruction. In this way the instructor would not be distracted and you could get your footage. Alternatively, you could plant a tripod on the bottom prior to class. Ziptie about 20lbs to the bottom of each leg, make sure the camera is set to ultra wide angle and let it run unattended. Then after class, someone could fetch it. If it's the pool portion, you could install a permanent gopro mount on the pool. I'm sure you could either buy or make a gopro mount adapter for your paralenz.

Agencies do allow a dedicated camera person who is not acting as a CA. They may not catch the footage that I want.

The tripod mounted camera simply isn't as good. The problem with the tripod is that you have to close to it that may not always get the detail. As I teach NB/T, we do move around. Moving students constantly in front of the camera to catch the angle that I want is a PITA.

I know I'll never win on this issue. Wait. That reminds me, RAID does allow instructors to use cameras in open water. As when I open a dive center in Greece, I will have no choice but to leave SDI (as an agency office in the country is required for their programs to be taught, and TDI/SDI doesn't plan on doing so ever). There are four agencies that have offices in Greece: PADI, SSI, IANTD, and CMAS. Only one of those would I (resume to) teach under. RAID is supposed to open an office in the near term, so I may have two agencies.
 
In another threat, people brought up liability and insurance, as being major problems with independent-tutoring. That's a really good point, that I don't have an answer for.

That said, I think there's a big difference between:
  • Teaching a potentially dangerous skillset from the ground up. Formalized classes are probably better here.
  • Tutoring, with focus on smaller skills, or refining skills.
I'll throw out a few pragmatic examples:
  • A diver wants to learn frog-kick and reverse-kick.
  • A person takes a "perfect bouyancy class", then does 6 independent dives working on their buoyancy. Now, they have a few questions, and want an "expert" to join them in the water, observe issues, and offer helpful advice and corrections.
  • A diver took a navigation course, passed, but is finding their navigation skills are imprecise in the field.
  • A diver wants to learn DSMB deployment with a hands-on instructor, but has no interest in technical-diving, or any of the classes which teach DSMB deployment.
What can you do as a diver in those scenarios? Pay for a $350 class, where there are 5 other students competing for the instructor's attention? Try to learn frog-kick from youtube videos? Try to self-critique and diagnose without an instructor? Give up on incremental improvements?

I'm not saying I know a pragmatic way to cut out the middle-man, start a tutoring operation, etc. But this is a thread on the internet for people to complain about the existing ways things are done, so I'm complaining.

:rant:
 
Perhaps agencies could allow the inclusion of a dedicated cameraman during instruction. In this way the instructor would not be distracted and you could get your footage. Alternatively, you could plant a tripod on the bottom prior to class. Ziptie about 20lbs to the bottom of each leg, make sure the camera is set to ultra wide angle and let it run unattended. Then after class, someone could fetch it. If it's the pool portion, you could install a permanent gopro mount on the pool. I'm sure you could either buy or make a gopro mount adapter for your paralenz.

I believe sidemounting.com does this. Not a dedicated camera-man, but they record their classes & use footage to help their students, and have said they believe other dive-instructors should start doing that as well.

It doesn't have to be perfect footage of course, so a helmet-camera would probably do the trick. "Watching the footage, we can see your right-fin is twisted a little during frog-kick"

Just as a normal diver, I bought a knockoff gopro-style action-camera, primarily for the purpose of recording myself performing skills so I could review and improve those skills.
 
I'll throw out a few pragmatic examples:
  • A diver wants to learn frog-kick and reverse-kick.
  • A person takes a "perfect bouyancy class", then does 6 independent dives working on their buoyancy. Now, they have a few questions, and want an "expert" to join them in the water, observe issues, and offer helpful advice and corrections.
  • A diver took a navigation course, passed, but is finding their navigation skills are imprecise in the field.
  • A diver wants to learn DSMB deployment with a hands-on instructor, but has no interest in technical-diving, or any of the classes which teach DSMB deployment.
What can you do as a diver in those scenarios? Pay for a $350 class, where there are 5 other students competing for the instructor's attention? Try to learn frog-kick from youtube videos? Try to self-critique and diagnose without an instructor? Give up on incremental improvements?
I've found a few instructors who were willing to work something out, whether that was a private class that was officially one of the standard courses but tailored to focus on my goals, or just an informal refresher. It helps to have some kind of relationship with the instructor, like having taken a course from them before. But I certainly relate to what you're saying.
 
@boulderjohn

What if a certified diver approached you and asked to hire you for an hour in the pool to help adjust gear so he/she would be in trim? Would you accommodate that person or insist they take a formal course like Peak Performance Buoyancy?

What if they just wanted to learn how to improve their frog kick and learn how to back kick? Is there even a course for that?
I would teach some basic stuff without a certification course. For example, an instructor with a different agency recently needed to do a better job with his trim and kicking skills for a tech instructor level for that agency and paid me to work with him on those skills. No problem. What can I be sued for teaching kicking skills in a pool?
 
Okay, I haven’t read all the posts on this thread, but have some suggestions. I’d like to see a lot more competency in basic swimming/lifesaving skills BEFORE diving instruction. That means reinstating the basic swimming skills shown in The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving book from the 1960s, or the NAUI swimming skills from the 1970s.

For the dive rescue courses, students should first be certified in lifesaving from one of the agencies that trains lifesaving today. Then go on to dive rescue.

SeaRat
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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