If you could change one thing about dive training...

[Centrals]

But it is the most comfortable and practical position for the absolute beginner who has no idea on neutral buoyancy.
Some operators do not have the luxury of a swimming pool and "confined place" = open water ie. sandy bottom. Viz can turn to pretty bad in no time at all. BTW, there are always lives at the sandy bottom.
A lot more time will be required to demonstrate/practice various skills on dry land.

 

[Pressurehead]

Some operators do not have the luxury of a swimming pool and "confined place"

This is true, or a pool deep enough.
One dive school I have seen the 'pool' they start their training in, more like a puddle, had a laugh watching them flap around like untrained seals, they do go to a deeper pool for the last session [I was told] , don't know why they don't start their training there , cost of entry ,travel, could be?
Pools deep enough is a problem, only one within a hours drive of me.

 

[TMHeimer]

This is true, or a pool deep enough.
One dive school I have seen the 'pool' they start their training in, more like a puddle, had a laugh watching them flap around like untrained seals, they do go to a deeper pool for the last session [I was told] , don't know why they don't start their training there , cost of entry ,travel, could be?
Pools deep enough is a problem, only one within a hours drive of me.

My oddball opinion has always been that any student who "flaps around like an untrained seal" should get some comfortability in water BEFORE signing up for scuba. I know that would cut down on business. My somewhat unpopular opinion also is that if you have a lot of "water" experience beforehand, it's not such a big deal whether you're taught neutrally or on your knees. You all know that I do think neutrally is better though.

 

[Pressurehead]

My oddball opinion has always been that any student who "flaps around like an untrained seal" should get some comfortability in water BEFORE signing up for scuba. I know that would cut down on business. My somewhat unpopular opinion also is that if you have a lot of "water" experience beforehand, it's not such a big deal whether you're taught neutrally or on your knees. You all know that I do think neutrally is better though.

No problem with them being comfortable in the water with them being members of the local Surf lifesaving club, young , fit and all good swimmers [in the surf] they were having a laugh in the shallow pool with all the scuba gear on.
The 'Instructor' [in training] with the head instructor looking on, she had no idea how to control them floating around with not enough weight, arms and fins flapping around, what a "hoot".

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

One thing I've never understood is that people think they are entitled to cut corners (violate standards) or to not have a proper training environment in order to run a business. If you have to violate standards (example: customers don't know how to swim so forget the swim and float tests) or you don't have an appropriate confined water location (clarity, calmness, and depth), find a difference source of income. No one is entitled to have a scuba business (or any business for that matter).

 

[Centrals]

The standard is already quite low but violation is still rampage! Incredible.
The on going lawsuit about"one girl died and boy injured" is a good testament to the widespread of standard violation.

 

[TMHeimer]

One thing I've never understood is that people think they are entitled to cut corners (violate standards) or to not have a proper training environment in order to run a business. If you have to violate standards (example: customers don't know how to swim so forget the swim and float tests) or you don't have an appropriate confined water location (clarity, calmness, and depth), find a difference source of income. No one is entitled to have a scuba business (or any business for that matter).

Yes agree. In my short 4 years of being the DM keeping track of a class of say 8 doing the swim test, I saw some pretty interesting things. I would say on average maybe 2 of the 8 swam with a proper stroke. Unless you konked out completely or sunk you passed. I'll never be sure of what that all means (see my many posts years ago on Going Pro forum and others).
A more appropriate name for the 200 swim would be the "Get from point A to point B without dying" test.

But back to the topic. I think some or all of the DM course "Stamina Tests" should be looked at and revised, maybe some for practical reasons related to what you may have to do as a DM. I listed my thoughts on each test years ago. Well, I'm talking PADI. I don't think these tests, or the OW 2 tests have been looked at since someone first dreamed them up (other than making the DM equip. exchange a graded one instead of pass-fail).

 

[Diving Dubai]

I think some or all of the DM course "Stamina Tests" should be looked at and revised

Why?

GUE Fundies have waterskill test, which people fret at. Their 300yard swim must be completed in under 14 mins. So that's 21 yards per minute

PADI's minimum is a 400Yd swim, which has to be completed in under 12 mins. At GUE's swim rate this would be increased to 19 mins, which BTW is the max for the 800 yard with fins and snorkel.


The swim test is nothing more than a basic stamina test. In fact in Fitness tests for the military (for instance) there is a sliding scale of time allowed taking into account, participants sex and age. Not so with PADI (I presume other agencies too) Whether you're 18 or 50+ you have the same requirements and minimum standards

There's many things that could be improved for Entry to professional levels, the water skills section is not one of those that's needed

 

[Diving Dubai]

Instead of an arbitrary number prerequisite for DM/AI/Instructor rating, perhaps needing several reference letters or an "interview dive" to begin the class/earn the rating.

I've said up thread for DM (and Instructor) there should be a skills test prior to entry into the course. You need to have achieved a certain degree of mastery. The same test would be part of each level beyond OW, except rather than being a course entry requirement it would be a course exit requirement. So AOW needs to demonstrate ca minimum level before qualifying

Example. Mid water buoyancy with a visual reference only. In trim and depending on your current level, you must achieve a certain standard of max vertical movement in the water column.


The practical skills and Theory are only 60% of a pro level though. It's easy to go through the steps of teaching skills while under training and the "student" is another instructor role playing. It's very different when its a real student that's not grasping the concept


My CD, whilst under training put us through a workshop where we had to explain and demonstrate Dry skills. I got back kick. At that time I'd got over 500 dives, was a tech diver and used back kick without thinking about it. Trying to communicate the mechanics of the skill to DM trainees who couldn't back kick was really hard, since I do it without thinking.

Perhaps post cert Instructor should have to team teach and then go through a final evaluation with real students, although I'd no idea how that would work in practice

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Perhaps post cert Instructor should have to team teach and then go through a final evaluation with real students, although I'd no idea how that would work in practice

Oh how I love something along this idea. Havi g sone sort of apprenticeship would have been incredibly beneficial for myself when I first became an instructor