I'm a newbie who tried a BP/W for the first time today...

[purbeast]

The X-Tek is far from a minimalistic backplate. You should try a regular BP/W with a basic harness before you invest in something with a padded back, chest strap, too many D-rings, plastic quick releases and a wrap around waist. There is too much unnecessary junk on that BC.

There was no pad on this at all. It was as basic as it could possibly be. I put the harness on and she fitted it to me without the wing even attached and it was just a basic harness with 2 D rings. Then it had just a basic strap around my waist and a crotch strap. After she made adjustments to get it to fit me properly, I took it off and she attached the wing to the plate and put the tank on.

As for weight and what not, I had 0 weight on me at all. No weight belt, no weights in trim pockets, no weight pockets. It was just the steel plate that I believe she said was 6lbs, and she mentioned the aluminum one (that I never tried) was 2lbs, so a 4lb difference. And as I mentioned, I sunk like a rock when I deflated the BCD from the surface.

And yes, I'm positive she said the one I used had 30lbs of lift on it and the next one up was 40lb. She didn't have a 40lb one for me to try out or anything though. She definitely mentioned at the surface when I had it fully inflated that I was negatively buoyant (and was obvious because my head was hardly out of the water and I had to kick a little to not sink as we were chatting). I wasn't sinking like a rock at the surface with a fully inflated BCD, but if I was like that in the ocean waiting to get on a boat, it wouldn't be the most comfortable and I'd definitely want to be able to float more.

When diving thus far I've only used jacket style BCD in salt water, with a full 3mm wetsuit on, and I use 6lbs of weight. That has been my ideal setup where I hardly put any air into the BCD while diving, if any at all.

 

[Zef]

And yes, I'm positive she said the one I used had 30lbs of lift on it and the next one up was 40lb. She didn't have a 40lb one for me to try out or anything though. She definitely mentioned at the surface when I had it fully inflated that I was negatively buoyant (and was obvious because my head was hardly out of the water and I had to kick a little to not sink as we were chatting). I wasn't sinking like a rock at the surface with a fully inflated BCD, but if I was like that in the ocean waiting to get on a boat, it wouldn't be the most comfortable and I'd definitely want to be able to float more.

Unless the woman strapped a twinset on the plate, even if she put a Faber HP 18L steel cylinder (@ -12lbs full) strapped to that steel plate (-6lbs) you would still have enough buoyancy to float comfortably with that 30lbs lift wing and no other balast, unless you snack on lead shot and had a belly full at the time, or you were on another planet with different laws of physics.

-Z

 

[purbeast]

Unless the woman strapped a twinset on the plate, even if she put a Faber HP 18L steel cylinder (@ -12lbs full) strapped to that steel plate (-6lbs) you would still have enough buoyancy to float comfortably with that 30lbs lift wing and no other balast, unless you snack on lead shot and had a belly full at the time, or you were on another planet with different laws of physics.

-Z

I mean I don't know what to tell you. This is the wing that I used.

https://scubapro.johnsonoutdoors.com/bcds/bcds/x-tek-donut-wing-w-bpi-black-13kg30lbs

I just looked on their website and this is the smallest one they make, so it's not like it could have been a different model or something.

And I know the wing was completely full at the surface because I held the button down until I heard it squirting out the excess air.

And again, I wasn't sinking like a rock at the surface. My head was above the surface but I was slowly trying to sink and it wasn't just floating out of the water effortlessly like I was with the Hydros Pro (and other BCD's I've used).

I saw other people using the same setup as me before I got in the pool (the people she was training) and at the surface they were clearly floating easier than I was.

When at the surface, it almost felt like when you do a weight test and your head is out of the water when you have a full breath and you sink when you exhale. That's almost how it felt, although I wasn't sinking as much when I exhaled. So maybe my terminology is wrong a bit? Maybe I wasn't super negatively buoyant but closer to being neutral.

 

[jlcnuke]

It's possible the wing was compromised in some way to prevent full inflation (bunched up and pinched or something).... but yeah, a 30lb wing has plenty of buoyancy for the stated conditions (and more)if everything is working properly.

 

[Zef]

In this case I will just have to push my "I believe" button, as what you describe, unless there is a factor that you are not mentioning, defies rational thought.

-Z

 

[Neilwood]

There is something strange going on with the BP&W you tried.

Unless you sink like a stone without any weight the wing should have a lot of excess buoyancy (14Kg approx total lift -3Kg weight of kit=11Kg positive lift). Either the dump valve isn't operating properly (venting too quickly) or there is an issue filling the wing (like the bladder is perished and sticking together) or something else.

The only other thing is - were you tipping forward as opposed to sinking? If so, lift your knees so you are "sitting" in the harness or actually lie back on it.

 

[purbeast]

There is something strange going on with the BP&W you tried.

Unless you sink like a stone without any weight the wing should have a lot of excess buoyancy (14Kg approx total lift -3Kg weight of kit=11Kg positive lift). Either the dump valve isn't operating properly (venting too quickly) or there is an issue filling the wing (like the bladder is perished and sticking together) or something else.

The only other thing is - were you tipping forward as opposed to sinking? If so, lift your knees so you are "sitting" in the harness or actually lie back on it.

I did sink like a stone with the BP/W on with no air in the BCD. Like I was stuck to the bottom lol. But, if you mean without any BCD on at all and just swimming in a pool, I don't sink like a stone but I don't float.

It wasn't the tipping forward feeling, as I experienced it and felt it with the Hydros Pro BCD, so I saw how that compared to the jacket style BCD's I was used to. And I played around a bit in that one at the surface just to get used to the back inflating feel. it was like I was sinking a little so my head would be just below the surface, which is how I float normally.

By nature I am a sinker. I can't float on my back and the 10 minute tread in OW certification class nearly killed me lol.

I remember initially I had 14lbs of weight in my BCD when I started my OW training, and eventually my instructor (during AOW dives) said I was way over weighted, and we tried 8lbs. And then I was still over weighted so we tried 6lbs and it was perfect. I realize that most people are over weighted in OW training, but I'm just putting this out there to let people know how my weighting has been thus far.

 

[saxman242]

I remember initially I had 14lbs of weight in my BCD when I started my OW training, and eventually my instructor (during AOW dives) said I was way over weighted, and we tried 8lbs. And then I was still over weighted so we tried 6lbs and it was perfect. I realize that most people are over weighted in OW training, but I'm just putting this out there to let people know how my weighting has been thus far.

If you needed 6 lbs of weight with a normal bc, I can totally understand you not needing to add any weight with a steel backplate. There's no way that a full 30 lbs wing couldn't float you though unless there was a serious problem with it.

That would mean that you were at least 30 pounds negative with the backplate empty. If that were the case, there's no reason you have needed to add 6 pounds with a normal bc.

Either the wing was compromised so it wasn't filling up anywhere near full or the dump valve was damaged so it was opening at a significantly lower pressure.

 

[purbeast]

If you needed 6 lbs of weight with a normal bc, I can totally understand you not needing to add any weight with a steel backplate. There's no way that a full 30 lbs wing couldn't float you though unless there was a serious problem with it.

That would mean that you were at least 30 pounds negative with the backplate empty. If that were the case, there's no reason you have needed to add 6 pounds with a normal bc.

Either the wing was compromised so it wasn't filling up anywhere near full or the dump valve was damaged so it was opening at a significantly lower pressure.

Okay well maybe that is a possibility, although I feel like she would have maybe known that. I also remember squeezing the wing with my hand while on the surface and it felt full.

But what you are saying makes sense for sure.

 

[saxman242]

Okay well maybe that is a possibility, although I feel like she would have maybe known that. I also remember squeezing the wing with my hand while on the surface and it felt full.

But what you are saying makes sense for sure.

If you squeezed it and it felt full,that'd suggest the bladder was twisted or something like that, preventing it from filling the whole bladder, but leaving the part that was filling feeling full.