Im done supporting my LDS (my money and I are gone)

[Shasta_man]

1fastcat you need to turn off the computer and go outside. I'd have to think there are computers to fix or people to tailgate or something else important down there in SoCal.

Pound your own opinion all you want but calling people you know nothing about names and giving us the "I been a computer guy before you were born" BS because they don't agree with your opinion only indicates ignorance and intolerance. Prove it wrong by agreeing to disagree.

 

[redacted]

Now all that being said, an LDS must make a substantial level of profit off the majority of their items. That is because, no matter how myopic your visions of diving dominance, diving is a niche activity that will never in the near term appeal to even high single digit portion of the adult population. Add to that the fact that most divers keep their diving equipment for years and years (lack of product cycling and that "volume" you so proudly speak of), and the LDS must somehow pay the bills and their "fiduciary responsibility to their family". Lessons don't pay the bills, nor do air fills. Lessons are a lost leader to generate equipment sales. Sales that are a 5 to 10 year replacement cycle ( and that is if you are able to provide enough local incentive i.e. charter boats, diving trips, club meetings etc.to keep people interested in diving). I can't tell you how many (the majority) of my friends, employees and acquaintances that tried diving (generally on vacation) that really have no interest in regular or even occasional local diving. That necessitates that in order to survive, your LDS has to sell at a price that will achieve break-even based on average monthly sales volumes. That price will always be more than the "lowest internet price".

Scubatoys, Scuba.com are the exception, not the rule. Most of the LDS around the country are mom and pops. They are not in a major metropolitan market to substain their brick & mortar via any sense of "volume". Note - Minnesota is not their home base.

I am not bashing internet sellers. I applaud their efforts in addressing a market demand. However, the same truism holds true for their survivability - If overall market LDS cease to exist or decline greatly in number they will lose new and existing customer base and see dwindling returns to the point of abandoning the market due to lack of a minimum level of purchasing activity.

LDS market health is the single most important factor in the health and growth of the scuba diving market. My ***** is with you cheap jack***** who buy everything on-line because you are too cheap to pay even a few bucks more to support a local shop. Hey if you have a bad LDS, by all means don't support his business. But stop your ignorant misleading statements that just because the guy can't sell for the lowest price that makes him a "bad LDS".

Fastcat

I get the impression that you are a little bit closer to the retail scuba industry and LDSs than your profile would suggest. Is that correct?

 

[Mlody11]

Omg just think of the Air Fills. My god the air fills!! AAHHH!! This is as lame as the "lowest price on the internet" excuse. Service. We want service. If we cant get it, we dont need you.

BTW... many dive charters and quarrys have already setup compressors to meet diving needs. Do you need air any place else? And the whole excuse that air fills dont get you money... A dive shop in Indiana setup a small booth at France Park that only has air fills and rentals. Why would they do this if it did not pay? Expand the base of customers? maybe. Honestly... I live in chicago and I doubt I would buy from them because they are just too darn far. Perhaps the Internet shops with their profits might setup places like these to offer those air fills and expand a customer base since it does not matter where you live.

On another note... "LDS market health is the single most important factor in the health and growth of the scuba diving market." Do you have any evidence at all to support this or are you just pulling it from thin air? You quoted soccer as being a dwindling sport. Is it because there are not enough stores that carry soccer equipment? Maybe because the media airs more football, basketball and baseball games. If there are more auto parts stores, is this going to push more people to work on their cars? Your core statement that "the LDS market health is the single most important factor" seems rather vague. Assuming that you mean the local LDS market because the internet scuba store is still considered LDS market. Now tell me, how the heck did you omit that information with your "great expertise"

I dont mean to bash but truely, we dont care what you've done unless it relates directly to scuba. Your resume belongs in a job board, not a scuba board.

Oh yea, I almost forgot...
"Best Buy, Home Depot, Lowes etc. all provided alernative mega "brick and mortar" shopping centers. But unlike LDS they sell products that people buy everyday "
I need to make sure I order my steaks for the BBQ at Best buy Next time. I dont know which items best buy carries as everyday items other than batteries. Home Depot and Lowes are also stretching the idea of "eveyday stuff."

It all comes down to this... I am a customer and the market needs to adapt to my decisions
Speak of customer as a whole...

 

[Creed]

Hey if you have a bad LDS, by all means don't support his business. But stop your ignorant misleading statements that just because the guy can't sell for the lowest price that makes him a "bad LDS".

For my part(and I think that my comments about the fact that you don't NEED an LDS probably started your rant), that was my point. I never said that making a profit marked someone as a bad LDS. I said that hysterical attitudes about the future of diving keep crap shops alive. And it's true. LDSs who face the reality that customer service is king do fine.
I don't have any hate for LDSs. Like I said in my first post, I'd like to run one part time someday. I have no problem spending money at the closest DS, either. The guy I deal with there recognizes that I am not going to buy "Expensive Gizmo of the Week." So, he sells me the stuff I want. Like used equipment. It's not uncommon for me to rummage through his used gear, and buy stuff. Given the choice of making a small profit from me versus none, he takes the profit road. And I constantly refer people to his shop who want to get certified. So, in the long and short runs, I am good for him.
But I also recognize the fact that I don't NEED him. If he went out of business tomorrow, I'd be sad. But I wouldn't stop diving. If I waited on an LDS to meet all of my needs, I wouldn't be diving today, and the dive industry would get $0 from me.
Oh, and did I mention that my infectious enthusiasm for diving has gotten at least 3 people to become certified who hadn't considered it before that? How many thousands of dollars of sales have I been indirectly responsible for?

 

[Scuba Jerm]

Whether it is a LDS, an internet store, a shoe store, a restaurant... I don't know why some business owners just don't get it. Customer service. That's it. Treat people right and they will stay your customers and maybe tell a friend. Treat someone wrong, and they'll tell 10.

Larry is right on point. Nothing will turn off a customer quicker than service like that. Whenever you get "nickeled and dimed" in a retail situation it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and you just will not go back there.... and why should you? To get more attitude and bad service? Why torture yourself right. There are plenty of better options out there where customer service is a large focus. Larry is one great example of customer service.... and not to toot my own horn but so are we.

Sorry you had a bad experiance.... we're not all like that

 

[robway034]

I walked into Reef & Ridge Watersports (in Raliegh NC) almost 15 years ago and told the guys I wanted to learn how to dive. After being gone for around 8 years the guys (actually a couple) that own the place still new my face and treated me like an ole friend just "back from the front" (which I was by the way). In any case, I have since then I have retired from the Army, moved to the DC Metro and have become a relatively succesful business owner. I have since hooked up with a LDS owned ar operated by a former Army Colonel named Dan (and yeah I asked him if he new forest gump when he was a Leutenant). Guy treats me like an ole buddy from his days in Nam. I hang out at the shop and shoot the breeze and on occasion he'll knock off a few bucks on something I've been eyeing. Anyway, after being in the DC Metro for almost 8 years, I went home (Raleigh) to visit freinds and family and decided to run by the ole shop. Ya know what...other than all of us having a few gray hairs.....nothing had changed. Still treated like an ole dive buddy.
Dont get me wrong, I have ordered stuff from SCUBA toys. Especially when the LDS tells me it will take them 3-4 weeks to get it in and I am diving the next weekend! but there is no replacement for our LDS. I am sorry for the experience the guy had who started this sting maybe he could take a few lessons from the guys I have mentioned (including SCUBA Toys, since they have always been very professional but more importantly ....divers first!).

A lot of industries have been crushed with the adivent of big business. I am old enough (and country boy enough) to remember mom & pop hardware stores, groceries and drug stores where you got treated like a friend and a nieghbor first... My LDS's have done just that. These are the guys I spend my money with and I wont bother to give significant mention to those LSD's who I dont spend it with.

Rob
96 ROMEO's like other great soldiers have begun to fade into the annuls of history! HOO-RAAAH

 

[nyprrthd]

Rob,

Welcome to the Scubaboard; and thank you for your service to our country. Guys like you make it possible for guys like me to sit at our computers and complain about things as trivial as our LDS.

 

[Dv4fun]

Diving is a hobby based business and customers dont need any crap from any dive related retail business. I patronize two LDS in my area and I stopped using the one closed on Sunday only becouse they hot filled my tank and when I arrived at the keys I only had 2500psi.

I order from the internet for incidental items , but, for personal equipment that needs to fit well I only use LDS.

Keep in mind some business owners dont want certain types of people in their shop. I figured the LDS that short filled my tanks was politlely saying they did not want me patronzing their shop anymore, likewise the one that charged you double was telling you to take a hike. Take it as passive aggressive retail message. I do, and just move on without much effort.

Enjoy more time diving and not shopping, there is plenty of shops that can give you the price/service you are looking to spend.

 

[Randy43068]

speaking of scubatoys...i've emailed you larry 4-5 times over the past few months with various gear questions, and not once have i received a reply. ended up getting my answers, and spending my money, elsewhere.

That's too bad. I had great experience with Larry and his shop. I bought a PST tank from him, great price, and a follow up call.

I have no doubt that he'll correct any issue you have.

Randy

 

[Randy43068]

Thanks for helping keep us free. I appreciate it!!

(end of thread hijack)

I walked into Reef & Ridge Watersports (in Raliegh NC) almost 15 years ago and told the guys I wanted to learn how to dive. After being gone for around 8 years the guys (actually a couple) that own the place still new my face and treated me like an ole friend just "back from the front" (which I was by the way). In any case, I have since then I have retired from the Army, moved to the DC Metro and have become a relatively succesful business owner. I have since hooked up with a LDS owned ar operated by a former Army Colonel named Dan (and yeah I asked him if he new forest gump when he was a Leutenant). Guy treats me like an ole buddy from his days in Nam. I hang out at the shop and shoot the breeze and on occasion he'll knock off a few bucks on something I've been eyeing. Anyway, after being in the DC Metro for almost 8 years, I went home (Raleigh) to visit freinds and family and decided to run by the ole shop. Ya know what...other than all of us having a few gray hairs.....nothing had changed. Still treated like an ole dive buddy.
Dont get me wrong, I have ordered stuff from SCUBA toys. Especially when the LDS tells me it will take them 3-4 weeks to get it in and I am diving the next weekend! but there is no replacement for our LDS. I am sorry for the experience the guy had who started this sting maybe he could take a few lessons from the guys I have mentioned (including SCUBA Toys, since they have always been very professional but more importantly ....divers first!).

A lot of industries have been crushed with the adivent of big business. I am old enough (and country boy enough) to remember mom & pop hardware stores, groceries and drug stores where you got treated like a friend and a nieghbor first... My LDS's have done just that. These are the guys I spend my money with and I wont bother to give significant mention to those LSD's who I dont spend it with.

Rob
96 ROMEO's like other great soldiers have begun to fade into the annuls of history! HOO-RAAAH