I'm the Pariah again

[karlimmergut]

It is if you're treating someone in a polite and professional manner ONLY because they're a divemaster, lawyer,politician, entertainer, etc...

Scuba diving is an expensive sport, it doesn't need to also be a pretentious sport.

Again, just to be absolutely clear, treating everyone the same is one thing, treating someone different based on their "accomplishments" IS putting them on a pedestal.

I do not think Matt expects to be treated better than others. The way I read his email, he expects to receive the same basic level of respect that is a norm for daily human interactions in any business setting, at a hospital, at a university, and everywhere else in the civilized world, between people of any rank and seniority. There is nothing "pretentious" about it. Perhaps the reason why some people view it as pretentious is because it is not a norm in their environment. Given that this is a service industry, it is reasonable to expect that the crew adapt to the rules of social conduct that the majority of their customers follow and take for granted. Instead, what we see in this thread is repeated attempts to rationalize why a boat captain has the right to conduct himself in whatever way he sees fit. Except for maybe folks with the military background, do not expect customers to sympathize with your point of view...

 

[seriousdiver]

Except for maybe folks with the military background, do not expect customers to sympathize with your point of view...

I think you're misunderstanding my point of view....

I don't believe the captain should be treated any different than anyone else.

I was responding to multiple people saying they insist treating the Captain different isn't putting him on a pedestal, when it in fact is putting the captain on a pedestal.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

 

[cbm32]

On the one hand, he IS the Captain and while at sea he is the boss. On the other hand, a paying customer needs to be treated as such and not berated or unnecessarily humiliated after the fact. Sounds like the captain got his panties in a bunch and acted inappropriately to me. A calm private discussion with Matt about what he expects in that kind of a situation would have sufficed. I suspect that if the owner had been onboard and ripped the captain a new one in front of everyone on the boat for treating a paying customer as he did, the captain wouldnt have been happy with that anymore than Matt was with being treated the way he was.

People skills and staying calm in these situations are sometimes sorely lacking even in those that should posses them.

 

[Quero]

I was responding to multiple people saying they insist treating the Captain different isn't putting him on a pedestal, when it in fact is putting the captain on a pedestal.

I agree that there is miscommunication, but I disagree about its origin since it's you who is misunderstanding. People are simply saying that all boat passengers must defer to the Captain because on his boat he is the boss of everybody. That is simply a question of seniority. When an accomplished professional who is a boat passenger suddenly sees himself treated as a subordinate by a person he may view as his hireling (in that he is a customer paying for a service), it is conceivable that the passenger will feel insulted. According a person in a position of authority deference is not putting him/her on a pedestal and revering him/her. Deference and reverence are two entirely different things.

 

[Mike]

In regard to doctors --

Way back when I was a professional photographer I did a lot of work around doctors and invariably the conversation would sooner or later turn to them questioning me about what's the best camera to take the best pictures. Doctors all would relate the same stories to me, "I used to have Nikons but then Canon came out with so and so, so I bought all Canons, or the complete opposite which would be they had all Canons and they'd just bought all Nikons" And when they say they bought them, they were always talking about purchases of 15-20K, buying complete systems.

My answer to their question about which camera takes the best pictures was always the same, the camera is irrelevant, its all about the person behind the camera. I'd explain further that so and so has photographs hanging in the Met that were taken with a pin hole camera being nothing more than a shoe box with a hole in one end and a photographic plate taped to the other end. The doctors would always listen, shake their heads in agreement and then return to their question, but do you like Nikons or Canons better? I saw an article saying Nikon's this or that lens was the sharpest lens you could buy.... There was no getting through to them, they were convinced that all they needed was the magic camera and they'd get better pictures.

In regard to doctors further I'll throw this out -- If doctors are so perfect it wouldn't be the norm to always seek a 2nd opinion.

 

[drrich2]

The doctors would always listen, shake their heads in agreement and then return to their question, but do you like Nikons or Canons better??????? There was no getting through to them, they were convinced that all they needed was the magic camera and they'd get better pictures.

I understand your point, but to someone in a logical analytical field (to some extent, and varies with specialty, but a lot of science classes along the way), the decision about buying a camera entails:

1.) A decision as to brand & model must be made. Logical/analytic people look for a logical/analytical basis for that decision. They're not interested in buying whichever one 'looks pretty' or has a nicer sounding name, or flipping a coin. They will not stop until they find a logical basis to choose one brand over another. After all, modern professionals aren't still using the shoebox approach you mentioned!

2.) Logically, since the products are not identical, there are differences, some of which must be relevant to the task at hand.

3.) Telling them 'go see which one you like the handling of' isn't too useful, since a photo newbie won't have the perception & judgment he hopes to have after having owned & used the product for awhile.

I've been round & round a similar issue on a digital camera forum before, only the issue was trying to get a straight answer as to whether a digital SLR pretty much always used in 'auto' mode (occasionally landscape mode) and only shooting JPEGs (no RAW) would yield better photos than a mid-range or upper end point & shoot.

Richard.

 

[karlimmergut]

I agree that there is miscommunication, but I disagree about its origin since it's you who is misunderstanding. People are simply saying that all boat passengers must defer to the Captain because on his boat he is the boss of everybody. That is simply a question of seniority. When an accomplished professional who is a boat passenger suddenly sees himself treated as a subordinate by a person he may view as his hireling (in that he is a customer paying for a service), it is conceivable that the passenger will feel insulted. According a person in a position of authority deference is not putting him/her on a pedestal and revering him/her. Deference and reverence are two entirely different things.

A lot of big words: boss, subordinate, authority, seniority, deference... I suspect most people would not enter a boat if they found this sort of language in the paperwork they sign. I think when we enter a boat, we implicitly agree to cooperate, and to exercise common sense. Normally, this involves responding to requests from the boat crew, not just the captain, for logistics reasons. There is a fine line between that, and a deference and subservience. Fortunately, many good dives ops somehow do manage to find that thin line...

 

[CT-Rich]

Heck, I have even met a lawyer or two that were decent human beings ..........

I have a theory that the rapture has already occurred... but nobody notice the two people who disappeared...

 

[diverrex]

In regard to doctors --


In regard to doctors further I'll throw this out -- If doctors are so perfect it wouldn't be the norm to always seek a 2nd opinion.

Not to hijack this thread too much but since it's already going all over the place that's a pretty silly statement. First most reasonable people don't think doctors are perfect but do recognize that they have significant knowledge in heir field that us laypersons don't. Second it isn't the norm to get a second opinion. The vast amount of treatment provided is without a second opinion. Seconds opinions may be regularly obtained when the consequences are significant and that's a reasonable action when the stakes are high no matter what he reputation of the doctor. I have never had to seek out a second opinion from a doctor..

 

[Pauly854]

I have the sudden urge to take a picture...of a doctor...being berated by a captain...while standing on a pedestal. But dammit...I have NO idea which camera will be best for this!